Smith vs other brands

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For me the lock is just one of many issues. In general, much about Ruger has improved over the years. They have always been mass produced and lacked the fit & finish present on S&W and Colt. It was much their reason for being. S&W has been on the downslide for years, decades even. The lock is just one factor of many. It represents a deal made with the Clintons that should've gone by the wayside but it didn't. Whether it failed once, a thousand times or never, it is an unnecessary complication brought about by our political enemies. I can't overlook it. Some can, I can't. Then there are the injection molded innards. The lack of polishing. The uglified lettering. The over-representation of stainless steel. They haven't even had a variation that interested me much since the 5" 29 Classic. Virtually all the elements of fit & finish that S&W used to have over Ruger are now gone. Considering that I can get on Gunbroker and find any older S&W that floats my boat all the way to the top, means that I have but one S&W revolver made in the last 20yrs, a lowly and lockless 442 that I never carry. But a plethora of late model Rugers. I think a lot of the folks that turn up their noses at Ruger haven't looked at them in a long time.

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For me the lock is just one of many issues. In general, much about Ruger has improved over the years. They have always been mass produced and lacked the fit & finish present on S&W and Colt. It was much their reason for being. S&W has been on the downslide for years, decades even. The lock is just one factor of many. It represents a deal made with the Clintons that should've gone by the wayside but it didn't. Whether it failed once, a thousand times or never, it is an unnecessary complication brought about by our political enemies. I can't overlook it. Some can, I can't. Then there are the injection molded innards. The lack of polishing. The uglified lettering. The over-representation of stainless steel. They haven't even had a variation that interested me much since the 5" 29 Classic. Virtually all the elements of fit & finish that S&W used to have over Ruger are now gone. Considering that I can get on Gunbroker and find any older S&W that floats my boat all the way to the top, means that I have but one S&W revolver made in the last 20yrs, a lowly and lockless 442 that I never carry. But a plethora of late model Rugers. I think a lot of the folks that turn up their noses at Ruger haven't looked at them in a long time.

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Love that 44 gp.

To add a little that tips me to prefer double action rugers are the simple disassembly and robust construction. Not getting into the whole "what's stronger?" thing, I'll just say a ruger revolver is stronger than it needs to be and that's a benefit to handloaders.
One other thing is that S&W doesn't make a SA revolver (at least not in recent memory that I know of) , a lot of us like single action revolvers. After buying my first ruger revolver in about 2010 I've only bought their revolvers with the exception of one FA.
There are a couple I'm really wanting still, they put out some interesting configurations and distributor exclusives.
 
My old Smiths definitely have better triggers. I won’t lie I hate the locks and what they represent. I still have 2 with locks, a 617 that needed a trigger job right off and ironically a 642 that is an EDC that I happen to shoot better than I deserve to for some reason. I’ve considered replacing it numerous times considering I had a 629 Performance Center Hunter that locked up twice. If I buy any more Smiths they will be old ones.
 
One thing that I do find interesting is that no one talks about the internal locks on Ruger Single Action revolvers. It makes me wonder if the S&W lock wasn’t visible from the outside of the gun if it wouldn’t be a concern either?

Yes, I agree completely. The lock on the New Vaquero was completely hidden from view. In order to access it one had to drill a hole in the right grip to insert the key. There was no hole in the grip as it came from the factory. There was a small countersink on the underside of the grip indicating where to drill the hole, but unless you drilled the hole yourself, there was no indication there was a lock inside, and no way to access it without removing the grips anyway. So the internal lock of a New Vaquero simply did not offend the way the visible hole on a S&W seems to.

This photo shows the internal lock in a New Vaquero. I bought this one around 2006. I drew a red circle around the counter sink in the right grip where one had to drill a hole in order to use the lock. Without a hole drilled there, nobody would even know there was a lock inside. By the way, I don't know anybody who drilled the hole and used the lock, and I know a lot of 'cowboys' who shoot New Vaqueros.

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This New Vaquero was made around 2013. Note the lack of the lock. The divot where to drill the hole in the grip is still there, no reason to change the mold, but there is no internal lock.

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Personally I have no problem with the lock on current S&W revolvers. I have exactly two of them. However I will not be buying any more because the QC of current S&W revolvers has gone down the tube. Many years ago, there were umpteen in process inspection steps in building a S&W revolver. In order to cut costs, most of these in process QC inspections have been eliminated. One of the modern Smiths I bought had problems that would not have gotten out the door in the old days. It seems that today the customer is the ultimate QC inspector at S&W, and unless the customer complains, defects will not be fixed.

Although I am not a big fan of Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, I can see how the redesign of some of the parts for the MIM process has cut down on the cost to manufacture S&W revolvers. Still the decline in quality will prevent me from buying any more new Smith and Wesson revolvers.

I am one of those guys who likes the old stuff. I am not going to say how many I own, suffice it to say my oldest S&W revolver left the factory in 1859. Yes, 1859. I have oodles of old Smiths, from every decade you can name. So I have no need to buy any of the new stuff.

Oddly enough, I'd say best fit and finished gun is a 686 from the late Bangor-Punta Era which was supposedly a low point for them.

The stories about the Bangor Punta era guns being poorly made are exaggerated. I have several from that era, and the fit and finish is second to none.




When was the last time S&W made a single action revolver? The New Model Number Three, at the top of this photo was cataloged until 1908, although all the frames had been made prior to 1899, so they are officially classified by the BATF as antiques. It's little brother the 38 Single Action 3rd Model was also known as the Model of 1891. It was cataloged until 1911. As far as I know, that is the last time S&W made a single action revolver.

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For me S&W has always been the "brand" to get in a .38 Special snubnose revolver. Have had my Model 638 with the lock for over 9 years now and no problems whatsoever with it. Bought it because I was looking for a lighter weight version of my Model 649 and I was really impressed by how well built this particular gun was (didn't hurt matters any that it was also on sale for a very nice price either)!
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My first snubby was a Charter Arms Undercover, mainly because that's all I could afford at the time. Had a few problems with it, sold it, and picked up a used S&W Model 36. After that S&W J frames are all I really have used for a good many years. Had a Model 38 which was a great revolver (and a real looker too with it's nickel plated finish), and was my favorite pocket pistol for quite some time til I switched to a Beretta Model 90.

Went awhile there where I didn't have a snub nose revolver but I fixed that omission by picking up an all stainless Model 649 when they first came out. It's another well made J frame and has as nice a trigger on it as the Model 638 I got years later.
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Olon

I think one of the things that got me hooked on the Model 38 was the fact that I could carry it in my pocket and have it in my hand while I took the dog on his nightly walks. It was like if anyone was foolish enough to accost me they would have their choice of what was behind Door #1 (my pocket .38 Special), or Door #2 (the good size dog at the other end of the leash)!
 
Why would people spend good money on a Smith revolver with the lock when they can get one from Ruger, Colt, Dan Wesson or Charter arms without one? :scrutiny:

Well, I would ask S&W the same thing. S&W offers nothing in the line of new guns that I would be interested in buying. Instead, I've bought other brands of new revolvers, SAR, and Ruger(Didn't keep it long), and three old S&W 28-2's alone. Future used gun purchases will be a 29/629, and a 686, none of them will be new, and none of them will be with a lock. I already have a DW 44, 2 15-2's and a 715, so I'm not interested in a new DW revolver, but I would have no objections to buying new, since they didn't screw it up when it went back into production.

The Kimber revolver is too ugly for me to even consider.

S&W current semiautos? Nope, not interested. Don't hate them, just not into plastic striker pistols. 3rd gen for me..
 
Why would people spend good money on a Smith revolver with the lock when they can get one from Ruger, Colt, Dan Wesson or Charter arms without one? :scrutiny:
Different strokes for different folks, but...with 50+ years of revolver experience behind me, and out of the box...no other manufacturer's offerings have the beautiful SA triggers of any of my Smiths (35+ guns since 1962). When Colt was still making revolvers, their SA triggers were close, they couldn't match Smith's DA trigger pull either. Colt's stacked towards the break point, making good DA fire harder. YMMv, but that's my experience. Here's a pair to draw to...Smith M18 in .22 LR and a Colt Diamondback .22 LR...the Smith is by far more accurate and with better SA/DA trigger pulls.

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I prefer the older S&W's with the firing pin mounted on the hammer. Having the firing pin/hammer make direct contact with the primer provides more positive ignition. Energy is lost when the hammer hits a transfer bar, when then hits a firing pin.

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It is my opinion that S&W had to install heavier mainsprings in the pistols with frame mounted firing pins, because of the loss in energy resulted in the occasional misfire with the old mainsprings.

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While I think S&W are great pistols, I have a preference for the older models with firing pins on the hammer. I asked S&W customer service why they eliminated the hammer mounted firing pin and was told they could not figure out how to automate that process. It took a dedicated worker with a special machine to drill that hole, so, they got rid of the worker in the redesign.
 
I prefer the older S&W's with the firing pin mounted on the hammer. Having the firing pin/hammer make direct contact with the primer provides more positive ignition. Energy is lost when the hammer hits a transfer bar, when then hits a firing pin.

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It is my opinion that S&W had to install heavier mainsprings in the pistols with frame mounted firing pins, because of the loss in energy resulted in the occasional misfire with the old mainsprings.

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While I think S&W are great pistols, I have a preference for the older models with firing pins on the hammer. I asked S&W customer service why they eliminated the hammer mounted firing pin and was told they could not figure out how to automate that process. It took a dedicated worker with a special machine to drill that hole, so, they got rid of the worker in the redesign.

In my experience the frame mounted firing pin guns were easy to tune down and still get reliable ignition. I have two N-frames with frame mounted and 2 with hammer mounted and the triggers on my 625 and 627 with the frame mounted firing pins are lighter and not depended on Federal primers. My 610 with hammer mounted firing pin is dependent on Federal primers to have an equally light double action trigger compared to my frame mounted 625. This opinion is fairly common in the USPSA Revolver world. Frame mounted firing pins also tolerate dry firing better and when they do eventually fail much easier to change out. YMMV.
 
In my experience the frame mounted firing pin guns were easy to tune down and still get reliable ignition. I have two N-frames with frame mounted and 2 with hammer mounted and the triggers on my 625 and 627 with the frame mounted firing pins are lighter and not depended on Federal primers. My 610 with hammer mounted firing pin is dependent on Federal primers to have an equally light double action trigger compared to my frame mounted 625. This opinion is fairly common in the USPSA Revolver world. Frame mounted firing pins also tolerate dry firing better and when they do eventually fail much easier to change out. YMMV.

My experience has been just the opposite. I've owned two 325 NGs and both had mis-fires with anything but Fed LP primers. And even then the trigger pull was inferior to my last 625 no-lock with a real firing pin, and the M25-2 I still have.

I currently have a 386 NG that needs a heavy main spring and trigger pull to insure ignition with factory ammunition. And before you tell me to get a extra long firing, I started with one of those first. I also have a 4" 325 PD that had the worst trigger pull of any DA revolver I've ever fired. My gunsmith said it was heavier than his trigger scale would register. He got it smooth and some what lighter but it still was heavier than I preferred. Then while test firing it the first time the frame cracked under the barrel shank. More S&W quality control. And they were neither enthused or encouraging about fixing it.

Dave
 
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In my experience the frame mounted firing pin guns were easy to tune down and still get reliable ignition. I have two N-frames with frame mounted and 2 with hammer mounted and the triggers on my 625 and 627 with the frame mounted firing pins are lighter and not depended on Federal primers. My 610 with hammer mounted firing pin is dependent on Federal primers to have an equally light double action trigger compared to my frame mounted 625. This opinion is fairly common in the USPSA Revolver world. Frame mounted firing pins also tolerate dry firing better and when they do eventually fail much easier to change out. YMMV.

Most interesting. I cannot but believe that energy is lost in the transfer of hammer to a frame mounted firing pin. A comment, if the firing pin strike is not in the exact center of the primer, it takes more energy to ignite the primer. At some distance from center, misfires increase, and increase in frequency the further from center, to the point the primer won't ignite.
 
I haven't had any issues with the frame mounted firing pins...but I did have the tip of a hammer mounted firing pin on my 629 power port break. That was a PITA when it happened early on in my shooting session. :fire:

Stay safe.
 
I refuse to buy one with the lock. Secondly, there are documented cases and like hundreds of threads on the S&W forum of the lock inadvertently actuating under heavy recoil. It normally happens with the lighter weight jframe revolvers.

If this was the one and only issue with Taurus or any other budget revolver manufacturer, it would be a deal breaker, but because of looks, history, name recognition, and fanism, people turn a blind eye in S&W's case...
 
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I refuse to buy one with the lock. Secondly, there are documented cases and like hundreds of threads on the S&W forum of the lock inadvertently actuating under heavy recoil. It normally happens with the lighter weight jframe revolvers.
There might be hundreds of threads but there have only been a handful of well documented cases of unmolested revolvers locking under recoil. Most of those cases turn out that the user was mucking about inside.

The lock is also super easy to remove and plug.

Most of mine don't have the lock but my current competition revolver has the lock. If S&W makes a configuration I like (10mm Auto, L-frame with fixed sights please) the lock is not going to stop me from buying it. I know how to deal with the lock.
 
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There might be hundreds of threads but there have only been a handful of well documented cases of unmolested revolvers locking under recoil. Most of those cases turn out that the user was mucking about inside.

The lock is also super easy to remove and plug.

Most of mine don't have the lock but my current competition revolver had the lock. If S&W makes a configuration I like (10mm Auto, L-frame with fixed sights please) the lock is not going to stop me from buying it. I know how to deal with the lock.

Thank you for posting that. I was just getting ready to to the same. The Lock is a non issue other than cosmetics. Most of those complaints go back 10 years and your typical internet nonsense and from users as you say "mucking about the inside".
I also will say that the little Snubbie sure is one well liked EDC by so many.
 
There might be hundreds of threads but there have only been a handful of well documented cases of unmolested revolvers locking under recoil. Most of those cases turn out that the user was mucking about inside.

The lock is also super easy to remove and plug.

Most of mine don't have the lock but my current competition revolver has the lock. If S&W makes a configuration I like (10mm Auto, L-frame with fixed sights please) the lock is not going to stop me from buying it. I know how to deal with the lock.
That's simply the s not the case. I've been a member of the S&W forum longer than I been here, and the in the discussion were it has happened (some form reputable sources in the industry and others by long term members who have no reason to make things up, it was not reported that they altered the gun in any way that would have any effect on the lock... Some of the members who reported that it happened to them were in denial and dismissed the possibility until it finally ...

The Ruger LCR and Taurus internal locks on the other hand don't seem to have the same issues.
 
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