A Question For FFLs

Not ethical unless they asked first.

Would have been so many better ways to handle that. I would be having harsh words with that FFL. Without a LEO inquiry, that is not his information to give.

IMHO the shop owner left himself very exposed to a note from a lawyer.
He should have said "I'll contact the buyer and see if he wants to sell the gun."

I kind of get the name bit depending on the size of town and if all parties are regulars at the shop. Just the way things were done in my small hometown, "did ya hear Tom finally got that truck he always wanted?" The birthdate is what baffels me. How is that relevant? The purchase price is weird too. I've blacklisted shops for less for sure.

I don't like the sound of that at all and would let the shop owner know about it. You purchased the firearm because you liked it right? Keep it.

I haven't taken the time to look up whether it is against regulations, because I wouldn't do it.

B_Li_Ber_Tar_Ian said:

More info...he even told them what I paid for it.

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I believe it very irresponsible to not disclose the name of the business, so that other humans do not have their personal information exposed to the world at large.

I also believe that the shop owner was not irresponsible, he was completely negligent and should absolutely be contacted by a lawyer on your behalf.

It’s nice the son wanted to buy the firearm, hopefully for a premium.
It’s a good thing he wasn’t some kind of crossed, and came looking for the guy that “stole” his dads gun...

I wonder if the shop owner would like everyone knowing how much he paid for everything.

That kind of miffs me.
I suspect you are no longer a customer?

MEHavey said:

IMHO the shop owner left himself very exposed to a note from a lawyer.
He should have said "I'll contact the buyer and see if he wants to sell the gun."

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Moreover, he cut himself out of a finders fee, for disturbing the previous customer’s peace.

It’s no one’s business what gun I buy. I’d be nine kinds of pissed. Suppose the kid wanted to steal it back? You were set up.

If the shop owner thought it was relevant, he could have contacted you.

I don't think it's legal for an FFL dealer to do that unless you authorized it. Even then I'm not to sure about that. Was this a regular gun store or a pawn shop? Not to sure as to why giving out your birth date was necessary unless LE was involved.

It was an inexcusable breach of your privacy. They have no right to disclose your personal information without your permission.

B_Li_Ber_Tar_Ian said:

Can an FFL give out any of my info to a private citizen? Background, a local shop gave my name and birthday as the purchaser of a firearm through their place. A mother sold the gun to the shop and the son wanted the gun. The son goes to the shop and they give him my name and birthdate as the purchaser. I'm friends with the son's brother in law, the brother in law tells him we're friends. I'll sell the gun to the son but the FFL throwing my info out really burns my ass. What, exactly, are the guidelines concerning this kind of crap?

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Dumb move by the LGS..When I owned retail place, if somebody wanted to contact a customer, I took their number than gave the customer their phone number.

I can't say for certain that it's against the law to do what the FFL did. It's not like doctor patient confidentiality, BUT it is for sure highly unethical, irresponsible, and unprofessional.

A local pawn shop/ gun shop myself and lots of friends and acquaintances of mine shop at the FFL there doesn't say a word about what I buy or what my friends buy, even though he knows we all personally know each other. FFL says loose lips means tight wallets lol and if I want to know what "Adam" bought ask him yourself. That's the way it should be.

These forms are given the same status as a tax return under the Privacy Act of 1974 and cannot be disclosed by the government
to private parties or other government officials except in accordance with the Privacy Act.

Individual dealers possessing a copy of the form are not subject to the Privacy Act's restrictions on disclosure.
(a civil matter at this point)

Looking through the Regs I don't see anything that makes what he did illegal. Unethical yes, but not illegal. Now this is on the Federal level. Each state could have different privacy laws that may apply. This isn't any different then your credit card company selling your information to other resellers for them to reach out to you.

In this day and age anyone giving out someone's personal ID information, i.e. date of birth, along with their name , is irresponsible. Giving them your purchase price, knowing they'd want to buy it, was certainly unethical.

I'd let them know how I felt and why I wouldn't be patronizing their store anymore. I realize in a small town that may be difficult, but if you feel strongly about it....

You can also mention it to your friends, letting them know what that shop is capable of.

B_Li_Ber_Tar_Ian said:

Can an FFL give out any of my info to a private citizen?

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No Federal law or ATF regulation prohibits this.
Common sense should.

Background, a local shop gave my name and birthday as the purchaser of a firearm through their place. A mother sold the gun to the shop and the son wanted the gun. The son goes to the shop and they give him my name and birthdate as the purchaser. I'm friends with the son's brother in law, the brother in law tells him we're friends. I'll sell the gun to the son but the FFL throwing my info out really burns my ass. What, exactly, are the guidelines concerning this kind of crap?

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Name the shop.
Shop elsewhere.
If they did it to you they'll do it to others.

MEHavey said:

IMHO the shop owner left himself very exposed to a note from a lawyer.

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OOOOOOOOOhhhhhh..................a nasty letter from a lawyer?
Seriously, that carries less weight than a Post It note stuck to the front door.

He should have said "I'll contact the buyer and see if he wants to sell the gun."

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This.

Sadly, ASTOUNDINGLY unethical but not illegal.

I could not even imagine a scenario in which I would take a customer's info from a 4473 OR EVEN A RECEIPT.... and give it to another customer.

And what the hell is with the birth date?

The way to handle it if one (the dealer) even intended to handle it is to take the third-party's info and pass it to the first party (the OP) and then the first party could act upon it if they wished.

Me? I would not be understating it to say that I would be livid over this breach of ethics and business sense as well as a complete lack of respect for the information which I had to mandatorily put into their hands.

No more business - EVER - unless an understanding of some sort was reached and to be honest, I don't know what that would be to re-instate my trust.

Todd.

dogtown tom said:

Seriously, that carries less weight than a Post It note stuck to the front door.

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Well, maybe the lawyer could use a Post-it note and some foul language.

I would speak with my wallet.
And maybe a choice hand gesture...

Is there more to this story??

ApacheCoTodd said:

And what the hell is with the birth date?

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I wondered this myself, then I wondered if it had any thing to do with a search. Without giving out a phone number or address, sometimes a birth date is a way to find public records? The whole thing sounds screwy. I definitely could see it in a small town scenario where everyone knows everyone. Sounds like Mom didn't want the son to have the gun? I'd be interested in the "rest of the story!".

buck460XVR said:

I wondered this myself, then I wondered if it had any thing to do with a search. Without giving out a phone number or address, sometimes a birth date is a way to find public records? The whole thing sounds screwy. I definitely could see it in a small town scenario where everyone knows everyone. Sounds like Mom didn't want the son to have the gun? I'd be interested in the "rest of the story!".

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But also, EVERY business owner and their management should absolutely know that it is a critical component of identity theft.

Todd.

dogtown tom said:

If they did it to you they'll do it to others.

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And, if they are that sloppy with ethics, there's every possibility they are just as sloppy with ATFE regs.

(And just why is it that the whoever it was wanted your gun, and not another one just like it, again?)

Which suggests to me that, down the road, ATFE will be going through all the records to sort out the wheat fro mthe chaff.