Should I get a C&R?

If you are going to purchase enough to make it worthwhile -as in having a genuine hobby-yes.

If you want to use the C&R as a way to hide something, then no.

The C&R doesn't give the holder license to act as a dealer. That is a different animal.

After 20 + years being an 03, I gave mine up as the price of milsurps/collectable firearms prices went through the roof. I now buy what I want from private sellers if the price is reasonable to me. Aim, J&G, SOG and the rest went full retard on their prices.

Bill

Hmmm...
70 Series Colt 1911s are about to be C&R eligible...

How much did you say this was?

So, one firearms transfer covers the license fee for me. Keep everything in a notebook. And enjoy old pistols?

I think I may be on the same page, @TTv2

First post here. I've had a C&R for a few years and it costs the same as a single transfer. Nice thing is that I can go to an auction house in the next state and just bring the C&R eligible gun back with me. Also, I don't need to complete a 4473/NICS check since the auction house is transferring to a FFL 03.

Given that the C&R fee is $30 and lasts 3 years, I’d say yes. If you save FFL transfer fees on just two acquisitions in those 3 years, you’ll be ahead dollar wise.

I had a C&R for one 3-year license term and pretty much acquired all the firearms that I was interested in, so I’ve let it expire. But during those 3 years, it saved me both $ and time.

I’ll likely apply for the C&R again just in case I see something else, and because it is a FFL. In some states - not my state yet, thankfully - FFL’s (including C&R’s) can receive ammo shipments directly whereas the common citizen have more regulations to comply with. Depending upon what happens in the future elections, ammunition purchase restrictions nationwide are a possibility; so a Type 3 FFL = C&R might be useful in other ways — at least for awhile.

I had a C&R for a while and bought several guns a year.
It’s great to have and will save you money, but here’s a problem you will run into. A lot of gun shop don’t care if a handgun is a C&R or an antique. They find it easier to just enter it in their log as a firearm and sell it as one with a 4473. I saw some cap and ball revolvers at one shop where they wanted a 4473 filled out.
If you do get a C&R, be sure to get you a good log book like the ones Brownell’s sells.

Dealer FFLs need to enter old guns into their log just as you need to enter it into your log. But some dealers out there refuse to accept 03FFLS and still want you to go through a a selling dealer.

I like older handguns and over the decades have found quite a few nice C&R eligible pistols and revolvers.

If you buy two guns over the years the license is in effect, you'll save enough to have paid for the license, plus eliminating travel.

Seems like a good deal. I've had one for a few renewals and never used it, but there's always hope! lol

I had one and bought two milsurp rifles..then I moved into another County and just didn't renew it.

I still have the guns, a Spanish Mauser and a CZ k98.

Stay safe.

I had a C&R for 6 years, starting around 2008. In the beginning, it was great. Lots of places had really good deals on old milsurp rifles, which is what I like. One downside I found was that some shops in my area would not "take the risk" of doing a straight transfer, since they "couldn't be sure what was on the C&R list." So, I had to do the 4473/background check just like a non-FFL. That was a bit frustrating, but I did it if I really wanted the gun.
Toward the end of the 2nd term, what BCR#1 mentioned began to happen; the prices began to get stupid.
Mosin 91/30's, which had been around $80/ea jumped up to north of $200. SKS's were worse. Seemed like the supply of milsurps either dried up, or were priced out of desirable range. I let it go after the second term.
It was fun while it lasted, though.

For a collector with decent money available to him and patience, it is still worth it but I don't think we'll ever see the golden-age of milsurps again that made it so worthwhile for so very many Americans.

Todd.

My cardinal rule in buying a collectible gun is to do a hands-on inspection. That means I buy mostly at local gun shows. (No buying sight-unseen by mail order.) A C&R FFL is not particularly helpful in this, and the downside is the recordkeeping requirement. I had an 03 FFL for a number of years, and finally realized that it wasn't worthwhile for me. YMMV.

TTv2 said:

Should I get a C&R?

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Ab-so-lute-ly!

I live out in the boonies. The closest gun shop is an hour away. Buying any gun locally isn't going to happen. Three years ago, I became very interested in older revolvers, so I obtained a C&R license. In the 3 years since, I have acquired 17 revolvers. Each one was shipped to my front door. So I have saved a nice chunk of change.

Every one of these guns was purchased off of GunBroker. Use common sense. Check out the sellers ratings. Read the rating "reviews". Look closely at the pictures. If there are only 2 or 3 pictures, and the quality is not good, I simply move on. If someone wants to sell a gun and can't provide decent pictures, I assume he either is not really interested in selling it, or is attempting to hide issues with the gun. Ask questions before placing a bid on a gun. Verify before hand that the seller will accept a C&R license. If he will not take one, just move on. There are lots and lots of the same gun out there. I nearly always ask a question or two just to verify that the seller will provide acceptable communication. I do my homework first. I have never had a problem with any transaction. Pay by using USPS money order or credit card. I only use a credit card if the seller is well established and has sold many items. Before placing a bid on an item, determine up front exactly how much you are willing to pay. Don't get caught up in an "auction frenzy". Be sure to factor in the shipping charge.

You don't have to purchase a log book at retail. There are lots of templates available that you can download to your computer and print them off. I keep all of my paperwork in a 3-ring binder.

Read the rules, regulations and laws pertaining to your license. Understand them.

My 03 renewal was put in the mail a few days ago. Good luck to you.

Full disclosure, I'm in the had one and did not renew category.

I like the idea of the 03FFL.

It allows C&R firearms purchased to be shipped directly to the address on your license. It can save on transfer fees, can get a discount at certain retailers, and there is a little pride in holding an FFL, even if it is just a C&R.

TTv2 said:

but after I look at the shipping, factor in the transfer fee

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Remember, that you still pay all shipping costs. It is only the transfer fee that you save. If a person uses it a couple of times in the three year window, sure there is "savings" as long as you would have bought those guns already.

TTv2 said:

especially if what I read about places like Brownell's and others giving deals for C&R holders

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Make sure to ask vendors to define the discount before you count the "savings." If you are an everyday price buyer, ok, you may save a few dollars. If you are a "wait for a coupon" buyer, the coupon will almost always be better and typically you can't stack discounts. I remember when Midway discontinued C&R discounts, sad times.

TTv2 said:

I'm not a milsurp rifle guy

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While that is not a dealbreaker, what others have mentioned is true today:

Many LGS don't want to deal with an 03C&R. You most likely will still have to fill out a 4473 and get a NICS check.
Most LGS have no idea about the age of the used firearms they are selling.
While the ATF says this:

Firearms automatically attain C&R status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics

...Proving it to an online seller and the transferring FFL is a hassle if the FFL doesn't deal with a lot of C&R firearms.


In the end, I just found that the amount of C&R guns was limited, that the prices of C&R firearms weren't that good (especially when police trade ins are so cheap), and got tired of some C&R online sellers operation practices, like selling the firearm with one mag and selling the accessories separately, grading inconsistencies, handpick costs that made me ask why I paid extra, etc.

BTW, keeping a bound book is no big deal. You aren't buying and selling everyday like your LGS, you're just collecting.

Submitting your 03FFL to your LEO isn't that big of a deal either, as long as you know which LEO needs your paperwork since municipal LEO and county sheriffs offices can overlap.

TTv2 said:

So, it C&R for me?

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For people who have a lot of interest in historical firearms and are willing to pay current prices, I can see how it would benefit. It just wasn't for me.

There's another factor that I didn't mention earlier: when it comes to guns, the more anonymity, the better. Holding an FFL, like holding a concealed carry license, chips away at your anonymity. Do you really want to be highlighted in a government database as a gun owner? Now for some of us, particularly owners of NFA items, this won't make much difference, but for others it might.

Had a 03 FFL for 6 years but let it lapse on the 1st of this month. Like many here I had mine mostly for military and police surplus firearms. Something about having firearms delivered to my door was pretty cool.

The reason i didn't renew mine was the cost military surplus firearms, as others had mentioned, has skyrocketed. The last straw was an advertised SKS for $299 that ballooned to over $400 if you added the assorted fees like hand select, numbers matching, shipping and warranty. The photos from actual buyers were disconcerting as were the reviews. Gone are the days of $150 Tokarev's and Yugo Mauser's. Sad but that's the world we live in.

I would like to say that I'll be attending a couple of more gun shows this year but none are scheduled in my area for the foreseeable future plus the warden, my wife of 47 years, currently has me on Corona lock down. Hoping to get a reprieve soon.

That being said OP I did use my C&R license to buy a few post war pre model S&W Military and Police .38 specials and some other 1940's to early 60's pistols. Kept a spread sheet on my notebook with all pertinent information like manufacturer, serial number, place of purchase, model, etc and if I sold one all the required information from the purchaser. Printed a hard copy for my record book after every new entry. Was always ready for a surprise visit from ATF but that never happened. Hope you enjoy yours.

Had one - let it expire. I know it doesn't happen often but I didn't want to give the government licenses to come into my house to check my license/log. I'd rather actually pay a little more and keep my stuff private.....

I’ve had a C & R longer than I can remember, have renewed it several times. bought a lot of milsurp back in the day, got some great guns.....Now I estimate,,(WA guess) that a million guns become C&R eligible every year. Mostly it just has to be 50 yrs old, or more. So that makes guns before 1970 eligible, right? I am aware of at least twelve regular dealers on Gunbroker that understand and ship to C&R holders.

Hmmm, seems to me some of the Remington Nylons might be C&R.??

Recently I received a gun in the mail, yes the USPS,,,,,not anything else that was C&R. It was packed very tightly and was not ‘declared’ when it was shipped. the dealer I bought it from said ‘you go C&R, no prob
The post office didn’t notice or didn’t care. Our local PO lady who is though as nails and sweet as can be,,,,,I told her about it...her response........”who cares, go get me a donut at the bakery.”

Some possible problems:

Some stares (California is one ) do not recognize C&R licences and all transfers must go through an in-state type 1 dealer. This means 4473s. An online seller will only ship to a type 1 dealer in these states. They will not ship to your C&R address.

couger1717 correctly points out that a lot of dealers don't know or care about what constitutes a 'C&R'. The "list" is a list of exceptions to the fifty year rule. They simply don't want to be bothered.

Having said this, I have had my C&R licence since 1996 and I just renewed it. All I buy anymore are C&R guns and I like being able to drive down to Simpson's (Collector Guns) in Galesburg and buy a rifle or pistol, pay without filling out a 4473, get my bill of sale and walk out the same day. Illinois has a one day waiting period on long guns, three days on handguns. Very handy.

BTW, machine guns over fifty years old ARE classified as "C&R" Of course, you don't get to just plunk down your cash and walk out with the gun....NFA rules still apply....

I had one, I too let it lapse.

In my experience the vast majority of 03 FFL's want NOTHING to do with the C&R. It's easier and quicker for them to just insist on a normal transfer.

Texas10mm said:

In my experience the vast majority of 03 FFL's want NOTHING to do with the C&R.....

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I'll take that bet.

Hokkmike said:

... I didn't want to give the government licenses to come into my house to check my license/log. ...

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You would have the option of taking the firearms listed in your Bound Book to their office. O'course, if you had a LOT of items that would with most folks, pretty-much, negate that option.