A Brace of Classic Mauser Hunters. Oh My...

DocRock · Apr 22, 2020

Never bid on anything at Rock Island Auctions before, but late last week put in two bids that I thought were laughably low-ball on 1) a set of three percussion revolver replicas (Uberti 1858, Pietta Starr, and a Euroarms Rogers & Spencer), and 2) a pair of classic Mauser sporting guns done by German gunmakers - a Model 1871 and a Model 98. Apparently my bid on the revolvers was laughably low ball...

To my surprise, I won the second! I'm quite intrigued by the Model 71 which is the much more "done" of the two: a 26" octagonal barrel, seemingly quite nicely engraved receiver, double set trigger, unique butter knife bolt handle and a nice stock, though A LOT of drop at comb. Unfortunately, I didn't pay as much attention to the spec sheet as I should have. The Model 71 is listed as chambered in "8mm" which is rather disappointing, if correct. I cant imagine that any of the gunsmithing done to the 71 would make it safe for 8x57 Mauser! Really hope it's a mistake and it's chambered in 11mm Mauser. This one's an antique, so direct delivery!

The M 98 is a more modestly done rifle - looks like the engraved receiver was case colored, tasteful octagonal to round barrel (hopefully IS/.323"), double set trigger, lightly engraved turn-down bolt handle, and scope mounts. Any advice and counsel on the scope mounts would be most welcome.

adcoch1 · Apr 22, 2020

Both of those are very cool.

troy fairweather · Apr 22, 2020

Very nice, I love mauser sporters like these, any name on the 98 barrel it looks the same as my j.p Sauer barrel. That barrel on the 71 does not look 8mm, if it was it would be a large rimmed 8mm.

Can't seem the mounts to good on the 98 are they a standard claw mount. Necg has some stuff for them.

Corpral_Agarn · Apr 22, 2020

11mm Mauser?

My ignorance of old German guns is showing through pretty strong.

Nice score OP.

Jim Watson · Apr 22, 2020

Got link to catalog?
Or must we wait for them to come in for better pictures?

LoonWulf · Apr 22, 2020

Nice! i always liked looking at those older rifles.

Duster340 · Apr 23, 2020

Very cool rifles.

DocRock · Apr 23, 2020

Link to RI Auction Catalogue

https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/2031/726/two-engraved-bolt-action-rifles

Dave DeLaurant · Apr 23, 2020

DocRock said:
The Model 71 is listed as chambered in "8mm" which is rather disappointing, if correct. I cant imagine that any of the gunsmithing done to the 71 would make it safe for 8x57 Mauser! Really hope it's a mistake and it's chambered in 11mm Mauser. This one's an antique, so direct delivery!

Possibly it is a Schutzen cartridge 8.15x46R or 8x48R -- are you planning to do a chamber casting?

BTW, how solid is the ID on this action? The 71 action I'm familiar with had a washer/screw arrangement for the bolt stop and the cocking piece/flag safety sticking out of the back of the receiver. The photo of your's looks much simpler and more elegant. There were a number of Teutonic single shot bolt actions in this period -- here's one identified as a Sauer in "8x48" (probably 8x48R Sauer http://www.cartridgecollector.net/8-x-48r-sauer-s-s-express-schutzen )

Here are a few others I just found, Google image searching on "Schutzen bolt rifle"

Beautiful rifles, both! Good luck tracking down a compatible claw mount/scope for the 98!

Jim Watson · Apr 23, 2020

My thought, too, Dave. I have seen some of those rifles in person and pictured and they are not 1871 Mausers.
Caliber 8mm is likely 8x48R Sauer or 8.15x46R Schuetzen.
ALFA 1911 advertised the type, calling it "Mauser" in calibers 6.5x27R, 8.15x46R, 9.3x72R, and 11.15x65R. Theirs has a wing safety but not the '71 screw and washer bolt stop.

And looking at the '98, consider that the front claw mount base is in a huge dovetail cut through the receiver ring. I wouldn't magnumize it.

DocRock · Apr 23, 2020

Dave DeLaurant said:
Possibly it is a Schutzen cartridge 8.15x46R or 8x48R -- are you planning to do a chamber casting?

BTW, how solid is the ID on this action? The 71 action I'm familiar with had a washer/screw arrangement for the bolt stop and the cocking piece/flag safety sticking out of the back of the receiver. The photo of your's looks much simpler and more elegant. There were a number of Teutonic single shot bolt actions in this period -- here's one identified as a Sauer in "8x48" (probably 8x48R Sauer http://www.cartridgecollector.net/8-x-48r-sauer-s-s-express-schutzen )

View attachment 910820

Here are a few others I just found, Google image searching on "Schutzen bolt rifle"

View attachment 910829

View attachment 910830

View attachment 910831

View attachment 910832

Beautiful rifles, both! Good luck tracking down a compatible claw mount/scope for the 98!

You know what I know in terms of ID'ing the action. Won the auction yesterday. Spec sheet says Model 1871 and chambered in 8mm. I guess I won't know until it arrives and I can look/do a chamber cast. I'd be completely sold on an 8mm Schutzen cartridge, but doesn't 26 " seem awfully long for a Shuzten rifle? Plus the absolute lack of any kind of aperture sight seems to bode against that. Will have to see what I have when I get it.

Dave DeLaurant · Apr 23, 2020

DocRock said:
You know what I know in terms of ID'ing the action. Won the auction yesterday. Spec sheet says Model 1871 and chambered in 8mm. I guess I won't know until it arrives and I can look/do a chamber cast. I'd be completely sold on an 8mm Schutzen cartridge, but doesn't 26 " seem awfully long for a Shuzten rifle? Plus the absolute lack of any kind of aperture sight seems to bode against that. Will have to see what I have when I get it.

Agreed: a Schutzen-ish cartridge but not a typical Schutzenfest-type (standing-position competition shooting) rifle. I usually see these svelte beauties called stalking rifles. Long barrels and slow twists used to be high fashion in the black powder era, and judging by surviving rifles, they used surprisingly light cartridges to hunt some game animals in Central Europe.

You might find this German language dude's website a gold mine of information once your rifle arrives: http://www.feuerbixler.de/

BTW, several of the 8mm Schutzen cartridge cases can be reformed from 30-30 brass. I recently made a batch of 8.15x46R for my Mauser 98 Wehrmanngewehr rifle. The reformed cases look and shoot just as good as my tiny supply of RWS factory brass.

Jim Watson · Apr 23, 2020

It is obviously a hunting or "stalking" rifle; the term schuetzen just applies to the cartridge or action type. I don't think 26" is a long barrel by the standards of the day.

Dave DeLaurant · Apr 23, 2020

Jim Watson said:
...the term schuetzen just applies to the cartridge or action type.

Good point! I've just clarified my earlier reply.

You've peaked my curiosity, as well as the limits of my high school German. FWIW, here's what wikipedia has to say about the term Schutzen:

"...a German plural noun used to designate a type of military unit of infantrymen, originally armed with a rifled musket and used in a light-infantry or skirmishing role - and hence similar to the Jäger. The individual infantrymen are termed Schütze. Prior to the introduction of firearms the word was used for 'archer', and is sometimes used in the form Bogenschütze (bowman - lit. 'bow shooter')...The verb schützen is not related to this noun, but to "Schutz" (protection'), and has the meaning 'to guard' or 'to protect'...The German word Schütze means 'one who shoots'.[emphasis mine]"

You are quite right to make the distinction -- like many, I tend to relate the word exclusively with Schutzenfest and civil marksmanship.

That said, I believe every time I've encountered the term schutzen being applied to a particular cartridge, it was in some way related to its use in target shooting.

DocRock · Apr 23, 2020

Dave DeLaurant said:
You might find this German language dude's website a gold mine of information once your rifle arrives: http://www.feuerbixler.de/

Thanks very much. I lived in Suisse Romande, the French speaking part of Switzerland, and never picked up hoch deutsche, let alone the "chuchichaestli" , so while the site looks super interesting, it's all Greek to me

troy fairweather · Apr 23, 2020

I've always liked this site.

http://www.germanhuntingguns.com

DocRock · Apr 23, 2020

It doesn't look like a Model 1871 to me. It looks more like a Dreyse. Possibly a Dreyse action reworked for a centerfire cartridge? It's a pleasant mystery to have while I wait for it to arrive.

Dave DeLaurant · Apr 23, 2020

DocRock said:
Thanks very much. I lived in Suisse Romande, the French speaking part of Switzerland, and never picked up hoch deutsche, let alone the "chuchichaestli" , so while the site looks super interesting, it's all Greek to me

Two words: Google translate. Some of the technical terms can get dicey, but I was able to get the gist of the Wehrmann section.

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