Commercially reloaded .45 ACP 230gr plated @1200fps!

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Sorry , I used the wrong wording when using peak pressure thanks for pointing that out. Maybe sustained peak or near peak pressure would be better . I believe my overall point is correct .
 
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The peak is not sustained. Pressure drops off quickly as the bullet moves down the barrel. Here's an example of two powders in a 38 Super. I know, not a 45 or a 357 magnum, but they are 2 powders with different burn rates and they reflect the pressure curve as the bullet moves down the barrel. (Pressure curves with 2 powders are not easy to find on the web!)

http://files.osgnetworks.tv/11/files/2014/04/Figure-5-compensators-Pressure-or-Gas.jpg

original source: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/compensators-pressure-gas/99170

If you have pressure curves for two powders in your example that support your assertion, please post them.
 
If you have pressure curves for two powders in your example that support your assertion, please post them.

The graph you posted does that for me . Your graph clearly shows HS-6 holding higher pressure through out the burn then 231 did and those are relatively close in burn rate compared to Titegroup and H-110 ( my example ) . I suspect comparing the later would show an even larger difference especially since the HS-6 reached a peak pressure 4,000psi lower then 231and still sustained a higher pressure through the length of the barrel . If you were to have both powders reach the same peak pressure as well as them having much faster and slower burn rates respectfully (my example) . I think that graph would be even more convincing of what I was saying .

Raise that blue line to meet the yellow line and the two lines would never intersect . The HS-6 line would stay above the 231 line the whole time . Resulting in the projectile being pushed faster by the HS-6 .

y0Coxc.png

Fx If you don't believe or even know that's not true can you explain , if fast and slow powders reach the same peak pressure at the same point in the cycle and neither sustain that pressure any longer then the other . How do any powders give faster velocities then any others ? I know in 357 my 231 loads can't push a 158gr bullet anywhere near what H-110 can . Please explain why that is in your own words .
 
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I suggest the OP do as suggested and darken the bullets with a black magic marker. Some plated bullets are extremely shiny and that may be the cause of the chrono giving errors with them, while giving correct readings for other bullet types. As I said before, I doubt very much if anyone, that has shot much .45ACP outta a 1911, would not notice how wicked the recoil would be, from a round with the kind of pressure. needed to give 1200 fps of velocity with a 230 grainer.
 
swagbrdr said:
Have you used that G2 chronograph on other loads/calibers? Did you get expected results then?
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We've used the G2 on .308, .223, 300BLK, and 9mm, all with completely expected results. The .308 had previously been chrony'd on my MagnetoSpeed (I no longer have it) and the difference was only what would be expected between muzzle velocity and velocity 10-12’ past the muzzle.
 
Swampman said:
That's kinda my point.

The average box of commercial. 45 ACP reloads will have numerous different headstamps with cases that are anywhere from 1x to ??x fired, with all the inconsistencies in case neck tension and crimp that implies.

When was the last time you fired 7 consecutive rounds from anything over a chronograph and got an ES of nine FPS? Let alone some gollywog, totally screwed up commercial reloads that are running 1200 FPS in a .45 auto with 4.7 grains of powder?

It might be possible to get that kind of ballistic uniformity in a .45, but it'd take weight sorted bullets/cases and extreme attention to detail when loading, along with about 450 FPS less velocity.

Sorry, I'm still going with screwy chrono readings.
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Here are the results of my 9mm fired same day, maybe 15 minutes earlier. Mixed brass loaded with 4.0gr of Clean Shot and RMR 124gr FMJRN. Also as a comparison, results of my .308 fired a couple of hours earlier....
B56EABBF-7379-4264-A88D-E18AE693BEE6.png A59F81E1-C8A2-40BF-8805-E1C19D45B1E4.png
 
We're going back out tomorrow to run some more of them and to do the black Sharpie thing.

After reading everybody's excellent posts, I’m convinced it was chrony error even though a lot of variables that could cause the error were accounted for. I’m going to shoot some next to my handloads to feel recoil and we'll try a few other things as well.
I'll report back.

Thanks for your great responses guys.
 
Hey Tcoz,
Interesting spread on those 10 shots with the P365. All within 4 feet per second on an average of 1215. That does seem unusual. I would also change the batteries for your test today.
 
tcoz said:
I can’t completely shake the “chronograph error” theory but again, how could rounds chrono'd before and after these be accurate (I’m sure that they are) and these be that far off?
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Were the other bullets you chronographed plated? How about you take some of the ones you pulled and load them up with a powder charge you are comfortable with and seeing what they do?

I have seen different lubes and plated bullets coming apart do some very odd things to chrono readings. I had some that were invisible and others that were way too fast to even be rational.
 
Also, pushing 230gr bullets out of a 1911 near 1200fps produced sharp almost uncomfortable recoil like a 357mag snake gun shooting hot 158gr.
Maybe bluedot was too fast burning.
 
We went back to the range today for a followup to see whether our results were similar. Before I confuse everybody, I just want to say that the 1200fps velocity readings were (are) definitely chronograph error but as far as why and how, I can’t answer that.

Anyway, we fired a total of eight mags, each loaded with five rounds. Two mags were the rounds that he bought from the commercial reloader which caused the initial erroneous readings in the first place. Two more mags consisted of his reloads and the final two mags consisted of my reloads. All six of these were fired out of his Remington R1. I then fired two five round mags of my reloads out of my Colt Classic.
Then, just for the heck of it, I followed up with a five rounds of 9mm through my Sig P320c.

I can post the individual results after he sends them to me but the results were simply that ALL .45acp rounds fired through the chronograph regardless of the origin of them and regardless of whether it was his gun or mine, chronographed at 1200 to 1350fps!
The chrony was placed 12’ in front of the muzzle and it was an extremely windy day which might possibly lessen any potential effects of muzzle blast.....maybe? All bullets were plated and we used a Sharpie to color some of them to see if the reflection might be giving us erroneous readings.

When I followed up with the 9mm, the result were all in the neighborhood of 1200fps as expected and lower than any of the .45’s. The first round fired immediately after all of the .45 was 1090 which was puzzling but the other four were 1263 to 1279.

He also chronographed some 30-30 and .223 rounds and all yielded velocities that you would expect.

The obvious conclusion is that his chronograph can’t accurately measure .45acp rounds but does accurately measure everything else.

I’m interested to read what everyone thinks.
 
tcoz said:
The obvious conclusion is that his chronograph can’t accurately measure .45acp rounds but does accurately measure everything else
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I don't think I could draw a conclusion from what I have read so far.

First thing I would do it chronograph some FMJ or JHP 45 acp rounds. If all you are testing in 45 is plated bullets and jacketed 30-30 and .223, you can't draw the conclusion that the caliber is the problem, can you?
 
jmorris said:
I don't think I could draw a conclusion from what I have read so far.
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I can , The chrono is to close . He is getting muzzle blast readings . I was placing mine at 15' and was getting wacky readings every once and awhile . Moved it to 20' and it worked much better . I should say better only when I was able to get the bullet to cross both sensors . The further I placed the chrono the harder it was to get a reading on every shot . 20' , at least for me was the happy medium where I no longer got the muzzle blast and still got 70 to 80% of my rounds to give me readings .
 
tcoz said:
He also chronographed some 30-30 and .223 rounds and all yielded velocities that you would expect.
Click to expand...
Were the 9mm, 30-30 and .223 also fired at 12 feet over the same setup (ie: chrono not moved or messed with between calibers)?

If so, that'd pretty much negate the argument about the screens being too close.
.45 ACP muzzle blast is usually pretty tame.
 
Is it feet or yards ? I think mine says yards . With rifle I take 10 large steps which translates to 30’
 
Swampman said:
Were the 9mm, 30-30 and .223 also fired at 12 feet over the same setup (ie: chrono not moved or messed with between calibers)?

If so, that'd pretty much negate the argument about the screens being too close.
.45 ACP muzzle blast is usually pretty tame.
Click to expand...

9mm was fired at the same distance with the chrono not having been moved. 30-30 and .223 were fired at the same distance however chrono had been moved to the rifle range
 
Metal God said:
Is it feet or yards ? I think mine says yards . With rifle I take 10 large steps which translates to 30’
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Instructions say 10-15 feet which is also the distance that a lot of videos I’ve watched set them. That’s why we used that distance, not because of the instructions.
 
Swampman said:
Were the 9mm, 30-30 and .223 also fired at 12 feet over the same setup (ie: chrono not moved or messed with between calibers)?

If so, that'd pretty much negate the argument about the screens being too close.
.45 ACP muzzle blast is usually pretty tame.
Click to expand...
Could be the timing of the muzzle blast relative to the bullet. The rifle bullet might reach the chrono before the muzzle blast, while the muzzle blast from the 45 reaches the chrono before the bullet. I think 10’ might be too close.
 
Swampman said:
I also agree with moving the chrono back a bit.
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A big bit. For a pistol I like to set up right in front of the target. Its easier to line the thing up anyways. I think I get better numbers that way.
For rifle, I can’t read the numbers that far away or I would set up just in front of the target at a hundred.




Also: With my Chrony, I find I need to use a new battery every time I use it. And wait for a cloudy day.
 
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