.22 short and .25 ACP smaller pocket guns?

whm1974 · May 3, 2020

Now during the late 19th and 20th Centuries there were smaller pocket revolvers and pistols such as the Velvo Dog Revolver that used small caliber, short casing ammo and some that had folding triggers.

The Velvo line was meant for protection against dog attacks for cyclist hence the name. But their were many others of this type.

The Velvo was later available in .22 LR being somewhat popular in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velo-dog

Now how come we don't see smaller scale revolvers of this type anymore?

jeepnik · May 3, 2020

I always thought it was Velo Dog. Funny how the mind can play tricks on you.

whm1974 · May 3, 2020

jeepnik said:
I always thought it was Velo Dog. Funny how the mind can play tricks on you.

Folding triggers are still use for small scale functional firearms as there no way to put a trigger guard on them.

Goosey · May 3, 2020

whm1974 said:
Now how come we don't see smaller scale revolvers of this type anymore?

You can still buy tiny revolvers. But why the tiny guns aren't as popular, probably because guns are taken more seriously legally removing many casual buyers of firearms novelties, and because advances in firearms means there are better alternatives and also that the potential threats are more serious, and from scenes in popular movies and TV, and because the potential buyers of pocket guns are more knowledgeable thanks to Google.

Oaktree45 · May 3, 2020

North American Arms still makes a small revolver that you can buy in 22 short or 22 LR. This one is a 22 LR. I think NAA is the only manufacturer that still makes a .25 too.

jar · May 3, 2020

I've probably had a small 25acp in my pocket most days for many decades. My favorite seems to be the FN 1906 Vest Pocket that was made in 1913-1914 but the newer Baby Browning also seems to get to go WalkAbout quite often.

The Colt 1908 Vest Pocket made in 1919 version of the FN 1906 also gets out but nowhere near as often.

And the Madeline's of the group are James Bond's first gun, a Beretta 1919 and the really tiny Walther model 9.

Kleanbore · May 3, 2020

jeepnik said:
I always thought it was Velo Dog.

Yep--velo for "velocipede".

Blkhrt13 · May 3, 2020

I need another jetfire 88 that's the only 25 i've ever owned and i've had two come and go. IO upped it to the Tomcat 32.

CDW4ME · May 3, 2020

For SD I want to stop the attacker ASAP.
Some calibers have better ASAP potential than others.
For me, minimal ASAP potential that I'll bet my life on is 9mm and I prefer to hedge the odds in my favor slightly more than that.
If a pocket gun is the absolute best one can do, no reason to go smaller than 380 - LCP/P3AT.

chicharrones · May 3, 2020

whm1974 said:
Now during the late 19th and 20th Centuries there were smaller pocket revolvers and pistols such as the Velvo Dog Revolver that used small caliber, short casing ammo and some that had folding triggers.

The Velvo line was meant for protection against dog attacks for cyclist hence the name. But their were many others of this type.

The Velvo was later available in .22 LR being somewhat popular in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velo-dog

Now how come we don't see smaller scale revolvers of this type anymore?

It seems that most cyclists I've run across are vehemently anti-gun these days. Maybe that has something to do with it?

WVGunman · May 3, 2020

Oaktree45 said:
I think NAA is the only manufacturer that still makes a .25 too.

Phoenix Arms still makes one, the HP25A.

The Charter Arms double-action .22 revolver made on their snubbie .38 frame is surprisingly small. With a 2-inch barrel and some scaled down grips, it qualifies as a pocket gun. Bigger than NAA's guns, but so is everything.
Heritage makes a version of their Rough Rider .22 single action with a 3-inch barrel and bird-head grips, which makes it quite compact.

But THIS one is my favorite. Taurus makes a revolver in .380 ACP (no, not a typo) that has a smaller cylinder than any other gun they sell. I've actually pondered getting one just because they seem so cool. Here is the only pic I could find to give an idea of its size, next to a S&W J-frame, already a pretty small revolver:

GEM · May 3, 2020

I had a NAA Mini in 22S. It was the cutest little gun. I couldn't hit with any reliable accuracy with it. It might serve as a very deep cover BUG, but that's it. Folks used to fear the small caliber guns before the age of antibiotics as being shot with one could bring a deadly infection.

whm1974 · May 3, 2020

GEM said:
I had a NAA Mini in 22S. It was the cutest little gun. I couldn't hit with any reliable accuracy with it. It might serve as a very deep cover BUG, but that's it. Folks used to fear the small caliber guns before the age of antibiotics as being shot with one could bring a deadly infection.

You can still die from getting shot by one of them depending on where you are shot. And damn the Tarus .380 Revolver us fairly short.

dodo bird · May 3, 2020

chicharrones said:
It seems that most cyclists I've run across are vehemently anti-gun these days. Maybe that has something to do with it?

There may be some truth in that. I am a mountain biker. A pistol rides with me in a fanny pack. Pretty slow to access but the biggest treat for me is a squirrel in the face at the worst time. Not to hi-jack the tread but, anyone else bicycle and carry? If so how? Always looking for something secure and safe in case of falling.

whm1974 · May 3, 2020

dodo bird said:
There may be some truth in that. I am a mountain biker. A pistol rides with me in a fanny pack. Pretty slow to access but the biggest treat for me is a squirrel in the face at the worst time. Not to hi-jack the tread but, anyone else bicycle and carry? If so how? Always looking for something secure and safe in case of falling.

What caliber and size pistol? Personally I would something small and light enough to avoid the other cyclist from noticing that I am carrying heat or thinking that I do.

Perhaps something in .32 Auto? .22 Short and Long Rifle would work, but would require more care with ammo and pocket gun selection to ensure the setup goes bang when you need it to.

Small Pocket 5 to 6 shot pocket revolver in .22 LR, did they still make those? Oh wait, doesn't North American Arms makes these?

typhun · May 3, 2020

On my bikes I use a top tube bento box. Foam pipe insulation around tube under bag stops rattling. Never once had any mates ask my anything about it

whm1974 · May 3, 2020

typhun said:
On my bikes I use a top tube bento box. Foam pipe insulation around tube under bag stops rattling. Never once had any mates ask my anything about it

If I was carrying I will want the gun to be on my person to make harder for anyone to take it away from me. This is why I'm not a fan of of women packing heat in their purses, purse snatcher and all that...

FL-NC · May 3, 2020

whm1974 said:
Now how come we don't see smaller scale revolvers of this type anymore?

Probably because it would be difficult to kill a dead dog with those calibers.

dodo bird · May 3, 2020

whm1974 said:
If I was carrying I will want the gun to be on my person to make harder for anyone to take it away from me. This is why I'm not a fan of of women packing heat in their purses, purse snatcher and all that...

whm1974 said:
What caliber and size pistol? Personally I would something small and light enough to avoid the other cyclist from noticing that I am carrying heat or thinking that I do.

Perhaps something in .32 Auto? .22 Short and Long Rifle would work, but would require more care with ammo and pocket gun selection to ensure the setup goes bang when you need it to.

Small Pocket 5 to 6 shot pocket revolver in .22 LR, did they still make those? Oh wait, doesn't North American Arms makes these?

sub compact 9mm. I not overly concerned about weight.

chicharrones · May 3, 2020

dodo bird said:
There may be some truth in that. I am a mountain biker. A pistol rides with me in a fanny pack. Pretty slow to access but the biggest treat for me is a squirrel in the face at the worst time. Not to hi-jack the tread but, anyone else bicycle and carry? If so how? Always looking for something secure and safe in case of falling.

I ride just to get the heart rate up, give the lungs an exercise, and not let my legs atrophy.

My knees and ankles can't take running anymore, so hitting the bicycle is it.

Back in the '90s I'd put my Beretta Bobcat .22 LR in a fanny pack while riding the mountain bike I had back then. Nowadays, my preference is my Taurus TCP in .32 ACP in its pocket holster, but I wear somewhat baggy pants or shorts that make that possible. I'm not trying to be aero when I ride, that's for sure.

I figure anything that is Ruger LCP sized works just fine for cycling. Which actually is one reason a new version of a VeloDog isn't needed in the 21st century, IMO.

Although I could use a carry gun on a dog, I really carry because of people. Most dogs around me are not a stray pack, they are someone's pet. That was probably a lot different back in 1900.

chicharrones · May 3, 2020

FL-NC said:
Probably because it would be difficult to kill a dead dog with those calibers.

"Kill a dead dog." rotflmao :rofl:

WestKentucky · May 3, 2020

WVGunman said:
Phoenix Arms still makes one, the HP25A.

The Charter Arms double-action .22 revolver made on their snubbie .38 frame is surprisingly small. With a 2-inch barrel and some scaled down grips, it qualifies as a pocket gun. Bigger than NAA's guns, but so is everything.
Heritage makes a version of their Rough Rider .22 single action with a 3-inch barrel and bird-head grips, which makes it quite compact.
View attachment 913797

But THIS one is my favorite. Taurus makes a revolver in .380 ACP (no, not a typo) that has a smaller cylinder than any other gun they sell. I've actually pondered getting one just because they seem so cool. Here is the only pic I could find to give an idea of its size, next to a S&W J-frame, already a pretty small revolver:
View attachment 913798

When that gun came out I was hopeful that they would drop bore size and offer it in 32. I was certain that a 22 version was coming along shortly but it has never happened. Seems silly to go to all the trouble to design the gun and only offer the 1 configuration.

whm1974 · May 3, 2020

This looks about nearly perfect for a pocket pistol...
https://northamericanarms.com/shop/firearms/naa-25naa/
This article is why started this thread.
https://www.guns.com/news/review/three-reasons-why-25-acp-is-irrelevant

chicharrones said:
Although I could use a carry gun on a dog, I really carry because of people. Most dogs around me are not a stray pack, they are someone's pet. That was probably a lot different back in 1900.

That depends where you go biking at. and quite a few people intentionally keep vicious dogs.

TTv2 · May 3, 2020

Because if you want a .22, NAA makes those, but they're single action. I can't imagine a tiny DA rimfire revolver would have a trigger you could even pull. The smallest DA .22 I know of is the Rossi Princess and that thing has the typical 20 lb trigger, but the grip is so tiny you can barely get any leverage on the trigger.

If you want a bigger caliber that's pretty much a no go because in revolvers the old guard that's been around for decades only wants .38 because .32 is just no good to them. Forget that 5 shot .32 S&W shorts were a standard carry gun in the late 19th and early 20th Century, they're not as powerful as a .38 and as we all know when we want an ultra small gun it needs stopping power because men will feel emasculated carrying a small, weak caliber.

As to the .25 in a revolver I don't see the point. Yes, you may get a slightly better trigger, but the small size of it would still be very tough to shoot well and for practice .22 will be cheaper and frankly where you'll be shooting someone with such a small caliber, the result is going to be the same.

whm1974 · May 3, 2020

TTv2 said:
Because if you want a .22, NAA makes those, but they're single action. I can't imagine a tiny DA rimfire revolver would have a trigger you could even pull. The smallest DA .22 I know of is the Rossi Princess and that thing has the typical 20 lb trigger, but the grip is so tiny you can barely get any leverage on the trigger.

If you want a bigger caliber that's pretty much a no go because in revolvers the old guard that's been around for decades only wants .38 because .32 is just no good to them. Forget that 5 shot .32 S&W shorts were a standard carry gun in the late 19th and early 20th Century, they're not as powerful as a .38 and as we all know when we want an ultra small gun it needs stopping power because men will feel emasculated carrying a small, weak caliber.

As to the .25 in a revolver I don't see the point. Yes, you may get a slightly better trigger, but the small size of it would still be very tough to shoot well and for practice .22 will be cheaper and frankly where you'll be shooting someone with such a small caliber, the result is going to be the same.

good point about the trigger being harder to pull on pocket DA/DAO revolvers.

.22 short and .25 ACP smaller pocket guns?

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