Little help with 38 special

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Well gentlemen, thank you all for your help. Just finished with my first 38 specials. Did 25 in powder coat and pan lubed 25 with Carnauba Blue from White Label. 158 grain over 3.7gn of W231. Coal 1.442. Lot of firsts in this batch. First time casting, first time powder coating, first time lubing, sizing and first time loading for 38. I'll let you know how they shoot. 20200430_170520.jpg 20200430_173553.jpg 20200430_182121.jpg 20200430_183551.jpg
 
I don't have anything to add. Just want to say this is a nice, insightful discussion. Also, I like the colorful powdered bullets.
 
I have some brass sorted out that is as much as .010 shorter than most, which could explain what you are seeing.
 
Bersaguy, great job on all those firsts. Your bullets and loaded rounds look great, and I'm sure they'll shoot great too. 38s and reloading and casting is just a great combination for a lot of fun.
The other Lee mold you mentioned should be fine for 9MM. As a poster above mentioned, try them without sizing first, and then if needed, size them down. In a couple of my Lee molds for 38/357 I end up with a bit undersized bullets where the .358 sizer has almost no effort/effect.
I started casting a year or two ago, and I went to powdercoating as I didn't want to mess with lubes.

I have to get back to my casting bench!
 
mstreddy said:
The other Lee mold you mentioned should be fine for 9MM. In a couple of my Lee molds for 38/357 I end up with a bit undersized bullets where the .358 sizer has almost no effort/effect.
I started casting a year or two ago, and I went to powdercoating as I didn't want to mess with lubes.

I have to get back to my casting bench!
Click to expand...

Thanks! I noticed when sizing the lubed bullets I casted up, that there were a few that didn't give much resistance going thru the .358 sizing die. The powder coated ones did, not bad but definitely could tell they were getting squeezed down. I think there's one of the six cavities is dropping close to 357, where most of the ones I'm measuring are at 359, with powder coat they're 361..ish. I'll see how the new mold casts, the 158 grain mold was used, and I'm starting to see where there are some nicks around the bullet bases that are causing some goobers on the cast bullets, but running thru the sizer knocks those off. So eventually, I'll probably replace that mold, but in the meantime it seem workable. I'm interested to see how this new mold casts compared to my older, slightly worn one
 
After Action Report:
Got out to the range with my chronograph today. All the rounds that fired, worked pretty well. I used mixed headstamp brass, and did have a handful with Winchester headstamps that wanted to bind in the action of my Security Six. I think the rims were just a bit thicker than the others 20200502_150337.jpg
The odd part is, I wound up with about 7 rounds that bound up, but when I got home, 4 of the 7 would rotate under the hammer just fine, but only in 3 of my cylinders. So I'm wondering if I'm dealing with just thick rims, or my cylinder having a little runout, or stacking tolerances with a hot gun...little of all three maybe?
With 3.7grains of W231, the powder coat rounds averaged about 100fps more than the panlubed rounds, 713fps and 617fps respectively. No lead deposits from either. A little smoke from the lubed rounds, but not much, nothing that would get your attention even at an indoor range. Accuracy was excellent. All in all pretty happy. I'll up the charge just a hair, maybe to 3.9 or so to get the lubed rounds up closer to the 700-750fps range.
 
Check under your extractor for powder residue. Make sure your primers are seated below flush with case head. Some times ammo companies seem like no one can read a blueprint. A decent vernier caliper would a valuable asset at this point
 
Rod47 said:
Check under your extractor for powder residue. Make sure your primers are seated below flush with case head. Some times ammo companies seem like no one can read a blueprint. A decent vernier caliper would a valuable asset at this point
Click to expand...
None of a number of presses in my shop will seat primers below flush, and it has made no difference in my various guns. In fact, I have a S&W 625PC that just got worked on for light strikes, and the last thing I need is to move the primer farther from the firing pin.
 
RealGun said:
None of a number of presses in my shop will seat primers below flush, and it has made no difference in my various guns. In fact, I have a S&W 625PC that just got worked on for light strikes, and the last thing I need is to move the primer farther from the firing pin.
Click to expand...
The primer distance has less to do with ignition than seating the primer correctly and setting the anvil.
 
Al of my primers are seated to the bottom of the primer pocket, and all of them are below flush, some more than others. Both of my presses that can prime and all of my hand priming tools will seat primers all the way to the bottom of primer pockets, which means below flush.

I'm glad seating primers flush is working for you, but it certainly isn't how it should be taught.
 
Walkalong said:
Al of my primers are seated to the bottom of the primer pocket, and all of them are below flush, some more than others. Both of my presses that can prime and all of my hand priming tools will seat primers all the way to the bottom of primer pockets, which means below flush.

I'm glad seating primers flush is working for you, but it certainly isn't how it should be taught.
Click to expand...
Small pistol magnum CCI measures.122, while the depth of the pocket on fired Starline .357 Magnum case measures .119, close as I can measure. That tells me that the primer reaches the bottom of the primer pocket when seated flush.
 
Its possible when dealing with tolerances for this to happen but not first choice on how it should happen. I would not accept it as normal and treat it as an exception.
 

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bersaguy said:
After Action Report:
Got out to the range with my chronograph today. All the rounds that fired, worked pretty well. I used mixed headstamp brass, and did have a handful with Winchester headstamps that wanted to bind in the action of my Security Six. I think the rims were just a bit thicker than the othersView attachment 913502
The odd part is, I wound up with about 7 rounds that bound up, but when I got home, 4 of the 7 would rotate under the hammer just fine, but only in 3 of my cylinders. So I'm wondering if I'm dealing with just thick rims, or my cylinder having a little runout, or stacking tolerances with a hot gun...little of all three maybe?
With 3.7grains of W231, the powder coat rounds averaged about 100fps more than the panlubed rounds, 713fps and 617fps respectively. No lead deposits from either. A little smoke from the lubed rounds, but not much, nothing that would get your attention even at an indoor range. Accuracy was excellent. All in all pretty happy. I'll up the charge just a hair, maybe to 3.9 or so to get the lubed rounds up closer to the 700-750fps range.
Click to expand...

It looks to me like the unfired round didn't quite get sized enough. There appears to be a slight ring near the base, just above where the web would be, and perhaps a shiny spot where it made contact with the chamber as it was inserted. Do you feel any resistance when you chamber it?
 
WestKentucky said:
I have had the opposite experience on accuracy. 231 and a heavy-ish crimp with a load roughly 1/3 between min and max got me to a clean burn, a respectable level of accuracy, and a decent but pleasant thump to the palm out of a light gun. When I ran out of 231 it was not nearly as easy to get bullseye to work. I had planned to try another powder but I haven’t loaded 38s in a long time. That’s about to change, it’s set up on the bench now.

specifically to accuracy... it was acceptable but was neither overly impressive or poor. Accuracy in handguns has a whole lot to do with bullet base, and it seems like the softer lead bullets are more susceptible to damage during seating. For highest accuracy it’s usually best to go with a jacketed bullet, but with care and a slightly heavier bell on the case you can get by with lead but you have to slow down, carefully place the bullet in the case so that it doesn’t squish or shave the base of the bullet, and be intentionally consistent on seating and crimping.
Click to expand...
with bullseye a very light crimp helps accuracy (i'm assuming you are using standard 38 spl. dies with a .356" expander so you don't deform the bullet and do keep the bullet/case tension at a minimum). the slower the powder, the more case/bullet and crimp is required to keep accuracy. bullseye is a great powder for "slow" loads in the 38 spl. cartridge.

luck,

murf
 
.38 Special said:
It looks to me like the unfired round didn't quite get sized enough. There appears to be a slight ring near the base, just above where the web would be, and perhaps a shiny spot where it made contact with the chamber as it was inserted. Do you feel any resistance when you chamber it?
Click to expand...

The rounds fall right into and out of the cylinder...I have noticed that the batch of rounds I shot, the primers were all flush, but not below flush. And the primers on the unfired rounds all have contact marks. I'm thinking I may need to take them down and seat the primer better. I'll be priming brass today or tomorrow, I'll prime some more Winchesters and see if the sized, primed brass rotates under the hammer
 
So, I went ahead and reseated the primers, and tried some more Winchester brass. All my primers are below flush, and I still have some that bind. This is kind of annoying. What I have found, is on some of my Winchester brass, the rims are indeed out of spec. I have some where the rims measure 0.060", 0.062, they bind up. Others I measured at 0.057, 0.055, those run just fine. What's aggravating is those are all Winchester. The other mixed brass I have are measuring 0.048, 0.055, 0.050, 0.042, kinda all over, but the Winchester is definitely thicker compared to the other brands...and a few individual examples get up over 0.058, which seems to be the limit on my revolver. I guess that just is what it is. Probably just happened to get a few cases from a lot where the die was wearing out, for the time being, I guess I'll just test out the rest of my Winchester brass in the cylinder, give em a spin and cull out the ones that bind. Maybe give them a couple of licks across a stone and clean up the primer pockets....that sounds like a rainy day project
 
bersaguy said:
So, I went ahead and reseated the primers, and tried some more Winchester brass. All my primers are below flush, and I still have some that bind. This is kind of annoying. What I have found, is on some of my Winchester brass, the rims are indeed out of spec. I have some where the rims measure 0.060", 0.062, they bind up. Others I measured at 0.057, 0.055, those run just fine. What's aggravating is those are all Winchester. The other mixed brass I have are measuring 0.048, 0.055, 0.050, 0.042, kinda all over, but the Winchester is definitely thicker compared to the other brands...and a few individual examples get up over 0.058, which seems to be the limit on my revolver. I guess that just is what it is. Probably just happened to get a few cases from a lot where the die was wearing out, for the time being, I guess I'll just test out the rest of my Winchester brass in the cylinder, give em a spin and cull out the ones that bind. Maybe give them a couple of licks across a stone and clean up the primer pockets....that sounds like a rainy day project
Click to expand...
They have jigs for measuring this on 22lr ammunition and some sort that way for competition. Never seen one for larger calibers.
 
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