Korth

I wish. I had been looking at the newer Nighthawk-imported Korths and the Manurhin MR73 recently, after interweb research I think they are about evenly matched in terms of refinement and shootability, with the Korth being more showy and the Manurhin more proven as a durable, reliable combat piece.

If you want a revolver to display and shoot occasionally, get a Korth. If you want a revolver to shoot a lot and carry, the Manurhin is probably better (and a little cheaper).

The Manurhin MR73 is legendary.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/gun-review-manurhin-mr73-sport-357-revolver/

Made for use by the French special forces (GIGN). Designed to withstand hundreds of thousands of rounds of maximum power .357 mag. Based on a Smith & Wesson Model 13 but with everything beefed up and strengthened to provide a far longer service life. Factory-tested to be capable of a minimum 0.8" group at 25 meters.



New-production MR73s can be had for around $3000-$3200. New Nighthawk-imported Korths start around $3500.

I have a few Korth revolvers. Eight, to be exact, and hopefully nine before much longer. None of the guns are from the new Korth company in Lollar, though. All of mine were manufactured in Ratzeburg in the 1970s and 1980s.

The new ones are great guns, but I much prefer the originals in every way. Once you’ve caught the bug, it’s hard to stop. Just ask PzGren — he’s closing in on twenty of them (or may have already passed that number).

Also a huge fan and addict of Mulhouse-built Manurhin MR73s. I’d like to think that the Chapuis MR73s are their technical equals, but I’ve heard a couple of troubling reports about poor durability and substandard metallurgy in the current guns. Not enough to lead me to draw any firm conclusions, but enough to give me some pause until I see some well-documented proof of their comparable longevity. The current MR73s are built by an entirely different company from the one that built the originals. Manurhin got out of the gun-building business in the 1990s. Chapuis Armes bought the rights to continue production of the MR73 with the use of the Manurhin name and logo.

None of the guns are from the new Korth company in Lollar, though. All of mine were manufactured in Ratzeburg in the 1970s and 1980s.

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From what I understand, the Ratzeburg Korths are all products of extensive hand-fitting and meticulous attention to detail by individual master gunsmiths. The newer Lollar guns utilize a lot more CNC automation to achieve similar levels of final fit/finish but with less actual man-hours of attention per gun. The upshot to this is that the older guns might very well be slightly tighter than the new Korths, but the new Korths are probably a lot easier to repair or replace broken parts with drop-in factory components, where an old Korth would pretty much need a very skilled gunsmith to do any work on.

No expense spared approach to building a revolver. They make your average S&W or Colt look like a Saturday Night Special. Only thing more familiar to Americans that compares favorably is Freedom Arms. In general terms, they are more comparable to best grade guns from the legendary British gunmakers. In that context $5000 looks like a bargain.

I would rather pay the going rate for Korths and Manurhins get than pay a similar going rate for a Python.

I was contemplating a used mr73 before I went on my recent binge. Beware, there is a cheaper revolver used by regular French police that is being sold, and unscrupulous sellers are advertising them as mr73 revolvers.

I would love to have a Korth at some point, and a mr73 but...there is an extensive list of other more important things to spend 3.5k$ + on. Some day I will though. If you get one please report.

I would second Mr. Craig C's comment. I thought my S&W K22 was good until I found an earlier one in the red box. I thought that was good until I found a Ratzeburg Korth. But I can only speak for the 22s, I've never handled or shot the larger calibers. Recently I've noticed a fellow in Florida offering several used Korth's in 22, that seem to be good based on what you can tell from pictures. If you're interested, I'd ask him how he came to have so many Korth's and hope he offered a reasonable explanation that didn't permit speculation about them having been abused. For example, did they belong to a gun club where they might have been abused, or is he just a collector disposing of a life-time accumulation. In any event, if you can find a good one and it's not an economic hardship and you enjoy shooting 22 revolvers, I would recommend one.

General Geoff said:

From what I understand, the Ratzeburg Korths are all products of extensive hand-fitting and meticulous attention to detail by individual master gunsmiths. The newer Lollar guns utilize a lot more CNC automation to achieve similar levels of final fit/finish but with less actual man-hours of attention per gun. The upshot to this is that the older guns might very well be slightly tighter than the new Korths, but the new Korths are probably a lot easier to repair or replace broken parts with drop-in factory components, where an old Korth would pretty much need a very skilled gunsmith to do any work on.

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Yes, you have it largely correct.

Even though the vast majority of Ratzeburg Korths were produced as standard models, they were essentially built like custom guns by master gunsmiths and machinists. (And Korth would build a full-custom, one-off revolver to your specs as well, if requested; plenty of Korths with engraving, gold inlay, and other bespoke adornments made their way to petro princes in the Middle East.) No automated equipment was used. Parts were precision-ground from forgings of undisclosed alloy composition with tensile strengths in the range of many true tool steels and maraging steels, and then deep-hardened, which is part of why they're described as revolvers designed and built without consideration for cost, as @CraigC noted. (And which, in turn, is why the original Korth company suffered multiple bankruptcies and was never profitable.) The guns were hand-polished with sanding blocks, never with polishing wheels, and they show incredible surface evenness and smoothness, even with the major parts having been surface-hardened to 60 HRC. The end result is something otherworldly. The guns look like they were produced with extraterrestrial technology. They're just unnervingly perfect.

I have only held and worked the action of a Korth National Standard (imported by Nighthawk as the Mongoose) to this point, but my impressions are very favorable -- technically, that is, not aesthetically, although the National Standard / Mongoose is at least far more subdued in appearance than the other mutant rail monsters in the Lollar lineup. That said, they are certainly not, in CraigC's terms, "no expense spared" revolvers in terms of either materials or production methods. As you noted, the new Korths were redesigned to maximize automation and drop-in assembly and minimize man-hours and hand-fitting. Materials are also far less exotic. In place of the much harder and tougher precision-ground steel forgings used for all parts of the Ratzeburg guns, the Lollar Korths are machined from bar stock of steel alloys typical in firearms production. The frames are made from AISI 4140 steel, and the cylinders are made from AISI 4340; the barrels have variously been advertised by Nighthawk as produced from either AISI 4340 or Type 416R (stainless). These alloys are, of course, more than adequate for producing a very fine and very durable revolver. After all, these are the alloys used in almost every other handgun you can buy, and Lollar sources the highest quality steel for these grades. The Ratzeburg guns are something unusual, though; only a very small number of other handguns (e.g., Swiss SIG P210, Mulhouse-built Manurhin MR73) have made similar use of much stronger steel alloys than the standard 4130 / 4140 / 4340 / 416 / 416R / 410 fare (4340 being comparatively rarer in use and considerably tougher than the rest of those).

No doubt you are correct that both the procurement and the performance of service on the new Korths is a simpler matter. On the other hand, as with a Swiss P210 or a Mulhouse MR73, it's rare for the near-adamantine parts in the Ratzeburg guns to give their owners any trouble.

Thanks for that in-depth explanation. I'd love to pick up a .22lr Ratzeburg Korth one of these days, just need to sell a kidney first

Throwing in photos of a few of mine to make the thread more interesting.

Most of my Korths are blued / carbon steel, and these are easily my favorites. Not generally a big fan of stainless steel in firearms, although something about the Korths in stainless does it for me (though not to the degree of the blued originals). Mainly picked the stainless ones up because they're particularly rare and collectible.


3" Korth Combat (first year)




4" Korth Combat




6" Korth Combat




6" Korth Combat




6" Korth Sport

Wow, I didn't know Korths were made in stainless at all. I love stainless guns. I'd say let me know if you ever decide to sell one but then I'd need to sell the other kidney!

General Geoff said:

Thanks for that in-depth explanation. I'd love to pick up a .22lr Ratzeburg Korth one of these days, just need to sell a kidney first

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You bet!

If I may make a suggestion, when the time comes, buy a Korth from the 24xxx series (1969) or later. These will have the Korth lockwork in its final form -- i.e., externally adjustable trigger rebound spring tension, introduced with the 22xxx series, and the action featuring the interchangeable trigger rollers, introduced with the 24xxx series. Any Korth with a shrouded ejector rod (whether short shroud or full underlug) and the cylinder release next to the hammer is from the 24xxx series or later; before the 24xxx series, the ejector rod was unshrouded, and it doubled as the cylinder release.

Here's a helpful guide from a Korth expert / shooter / collector who posts here occasionally (PzGren / Andyd): https://www.texasguntalk.com/threads/the-evolution-of-the-korth-sport-revolver.86221/.

General Geoff said:

Wow, I didn't know Korths were made in stainless at all. I love stainless guns. I'd say let me know if you ever decide to sell one but then I'd need to sell the other kidney!

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Yeah, they didn't make many of them. I've also never been able to determine if Korth used a grade of stainless comparable in strength to the exotic alloys in their carbon steel guns rather than something like the typical Type 416 or 416R stainless. Since Willi Korth had already ceased any involvement with the company several years before the stainless production began, I kind of have my doubts. (Not that this would be anything but an academic question with .22 LR.)

Korth builds some beautiful guns and some of the best bluing I've seen.
I would own two of them except for the fact that I can't even afford one.

I love Korths, but Ratzeburg only.


Here's one of my Combats from 1985










Here's a '76 Combat Dynamit Nobel










Here's my other Korths. The Autopistols are two of less than 300 ever made.

MANY years ago, I really wanted a Korth, then I met a guy that had a couple of them, at the range. He was really trying to sell me on buying one, but when we fired his in 357 mag. rapid fire, the cylinder would get hot and it would get harder and harder to turn until it nearly locked up.

After it cooled all was fine, and I just wasn't impressed at all, and stuck to my original S&W 357 mags., that to this day, still work perfectly...

DM

Added this ANIB 3" Korth Combat yesterday to complement my other (first-year) 3" Combat. Looks like it left the factory gates yesterday as well, rather than over four decades ago. This one has a ventilated rib, whereas my first-year Combat has a solid rib. And, as with all but one of my other Korths, this one has no import mark.

DM~ said:

MANY years ago, I really wanted a Korth, then I met a guy that had a couple of them, at the range. He was really trying to sell me on buying one, but when we fired his in 357 mag. rapid fire, the cylinder would get hot and it would get harder and harder to turn until it nearly locked up.

After it cooled all was fine, and I just wasn't impressed at all, and stuck to my original S&W 357 mags., that to this day, still work perfectly...

DM

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This doesn't surprise me too much, Ratzeburg Korths are known to be so precisely-fitted that there is basically no B/C gap. Locking up after several cylinders' worth of rapid fire makes sense, even the finest craftsmanship can't eliminate thermal expansion.

I expect the new Lollar guns probably have a tight but functionally-important B/C gap

I like buying/ owning “the best” when my cash flow allows (meaning when my wonderful spouse gives the nod). However, finding a Korth revolver to fondle around here is like finding a baby pigeon - I know they exist but I have never seen one - maybe some day.

I’ve known about Korth for quite a while. Only found out about Manhurin within the past year. I’m not sure why but the Manhurin appeals to me more.

Having been to both Korth factories and owning, as well as shooting, several Korths and MR73s, I love the older Korths revolvers that were made when old man Willi was still alive and in charge.While there have been a lot of positive reports written about the MR73 in the U.S., it is a rare boutique gun here.
That is different in Germany, where Korths and Manurhin revolvers are enjoying a good presence at the firing lines in competitions, I can say that from experience.
With gun ownership restricted for the average German shooter, they own less guns than Americans but are obliged to follow an 18/12 rule, having to shoot at least 18 times a year and at least once a month to proof that they are active shooters and continue to fulfill the requirements for gun ownership. As you can imagine, the people that own one Korth or one Manurhin MR73 as their only centerfire revolver, will shoot their lonely gun quite a bit over the years. What I am driving at, is that there are plenty of reports in Germany from unhappy Manurhin MR73 owners, both of Mulhouse and Chapuis Armes manufacture. At the same time, the old Korths keep on going like the energizer bunny.

Nevertheless, I took a very nice and smooth Chapuis Armes MR73 to the range a few weeks ago and shot it against a well set-up S&W M15-3 and had pretty much the same scores with both guns with .38 Special reloads.

No surprise since the bullseye record with a revolver was shot with a S&W K-38 / M14 and is still unbroken.