Body Armor Vest for Civilians

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Varminterror said:
If I felt it were too much risk to attend an indoor shooting range without wearing ballistic protection, I simply wouldn’t attend said indoor shooting range. Period.

Armour doesn’t make you safe, it just makes you more likely to survive.
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Period? Just more likely to survive? Lol, yea who the heck wants to survive?

I have been at a lot of ranges over the decades and have seen all kinds of dangerous things. I mean down right stupid acts of safety violations and stupidity does not choose which range. "Stuff" happens Period. The fact that gun sales in recent months is higher than any time we have witnessed combined with that with the fact that many ranges have been closed down is going to create a whole lot of inexperienced shooters. I have memberships at three indoor shooting ranges and belong to a club where we have a outdoor range. At that range I am a Range Officer on many occasions.
If any person I know chooses to wear a vest, I see nothing wrong with that. Simple, thing to do, cost is not really that much for a avid gun enthusiast. And if it can be made to be reasonable in cost and it appears some can be fairly comfortable what is wrong with this? And yes, a number of us that have been at the club for years do offer some new folks with assistance.
I am the OP that started this thread in a attempt to learn about them from those with experience.If I can reasonably add another layer of protection of safety then that might be something I will consider.
Yes, for the average shooter that shoots once a month,maybe not a good investment, but for some of us that shoot frequently, them maybe it is. Simple individual choice.But how about we do take some time to at least learn about them?

http://www.thegunmag.com/body-armor-makes-sense-firing-range-instructors/

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"Choosing a vest that suits your needs and is capable of protecting you against the firearms that surround you is a simple step in preventing tragedy."
 
Browning said:
Yeah, but again ... if you read the link it spells it out pretty well.

That’s a company policy, not a law of some sort. Just tick that company off a place to buy from and keep going. Plenty of other places to buy from.

You don’t really need them. Galls has been like that for years. Not just on body armor either. Hence the fact that I haven’t bought anything for them in the better part of two decades despite the fact that their catalogs litter the station like Xmas ornaments.
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Never said it was a law. If anyone is buying a vest to actually protect them from possible gunfire and not just to say look at me I got a vest it should be from a reputable company like Galls or LAPG. We had a guy in my police academy class decide he was going to buy knock off ceramic type plates from some LGS and when we shot it with a 9mm it cracked the plate clean in half and after 2 more rounds they punched through. I had a former co worker buy something online from some store claiming it was level 3 and in date. Found out after spending $300-400 on it the vest was due to expire in about a year. While we shot expired vests in the academy for fun, and each one caught the bullet, one vest was shot with a 45acp at about 20ft and it had a very small layer on the backside that I sliced with my knife to retrieve the bullet. A little more speed and maybe a nice HP it may have ripped right on through. My buddy just purchased some swedish suriplus body armor and it claims level 3 up to a 44mag. Its hard as a rock and formed like a torso. I would put $100 I could hit that thing 3-4x with my 9mm or 44 and it would blow right through it.

OP--If your that concerned about it you need to buy something reputable from a reputable source. Soft armor in level 2-3A is good because walking into the range wearing a tactical vest may either get you shot or severaly made fun of. One range by me, years ago wouldnt allow any guns brought in outside the case or bag and if you walked in with it CCW or OC you were asked to take it off.
 
Axis II said:
Never said it was a law. If anyone is buying a vest to actually protect them from possible gunfire and not just to say look at me I got a vest it should be from a reputable company like Galls or LAPG. We had a guy in my police academy class decide he was going to buy knock off ceramic type plates from some LGS and when we shot it with a 9mm it cracked the plate clean in half and after 2 more rounds they punched through. I had a former co worker buy something online from some store claiming it was level 3 and in date. Found out after spending $300-400 on it the vest was due to expire in about a year.
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You're hung up on Galls for some reason.

Point Blank isn’t a reputable company?
Armor Express isn’t a reputable company?
Safelite Defense isn’t a reputable company?
Velocity Systems isn’t a reputable company?

Plenty of others too.

You can buy all those with a letter affirming that you have no criminal or mental health history, a CHL and a driver’s license.

68BFFE1B-30FE-4AED-AF63-22277324E937.jpeg

C97BDE6B-90E5-473F-A769-48085786122D.jpeg

That’s ONE example of a single company. There’s dozens more all selling reputable brands.

For rifle plates you can buy Velocity Systems, Hesco, Hoplite or Paraclete. I can buy Galls through our dept, I just choose not to for this very reason.

None of these are exactly bargain brand armor. None are out of the trunk of a car. All of the above are on our dept’s approved list.

Spend your money how you like, but it’s not all over if you’re in a profession where Galls doesn’t think that your life is worth saving.
 
Ernie Bass said:
Period? Just more likely to survive? Lol, yea who the heck wants to survive?
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I am with @Varminterror on this one.

Anytime you got to a regular range thinking "I might get shot there, better armor up", you need to find a new range.

I've left ranges that were stupid unsafe before. Never have I thought that if I had armor, I would stick around.

That's just silly.

Axis II said:
Never said it was a law. If anyone is buying a vest to actually protect them from possible gunfire and not just to say look at me I got a vest it should be from a reputable company like Galls or LAPG.
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uh... LAPG? as in LA police gear?

So companies like Shellback tactical, Ferro Concepts, Spiritus systems, Esstac, etc are not "reputable" to you?

I think you may need to expand your research criteria just a wee bit.

Axis II said:
We had a guy in my police academy class decide he was going to buy knock off ceramic type plates from some LGS and when we shot it with a 9mm it cracked the plate clean in half and after 2 more rounds they punched through. I had a former co worker buy something online from some store claiming it was level 3 and in date.
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The fact that some dude purchased bootlegged armor doesn't really make your case...

I think we can agree that there's a spectrum between your academy dude's bootlegged stuff and actual, reputable armor manufacturers.

Axis II said:
OP--If your that concerned about it you need to buy something reputable from a reputable source. Soft armor in level 2-3A is good because walking into the range wearing a tactical vest may either get you shot or severaly made fun of.
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the bold... what in the what?

what the heck kinda range you going to?

I don't know of anyone recommending level II right now. Level IIIA is common, affordable and does everything II does, but better.

And the fear of someone who doesn't know you making fun of you being a driving factor behind life decisions... IDK about that.
 
I'm interested in concealable armor. I was shopping for it about 6 months ago, but put it off. I haven't had a need for it during the shutdown because everything around me has come to a stop. I have a feeling that in another 5 months, I'm going to want it again. Part of my work involves public speaking and I am frequently in a tourist area where I suspect there is a heightened possibility of a terrorist attack because there has been a number of them in very similar areas. There's always a sense of vulnerability when one draws the attention of others to oneself. Besides politically-motivated attacks, I'm concerned about violence from ED persons. In my eighteen years experience, I've never suffered serious violence, but I have the sense that things are getting worse, not better. FWIW, the state laws do not allow the lawful concealed or open carry of firearms in that area, at least the lawful practice of such is inaccessible to most citizens like myself.

More than simply justifying my interest in armor, I wanted to describe the circumstances where I think concealed armor is better than a plate carrier worn over my clothing. The climate is cool in the summer and cold in winter so it is quite practical to conceal it under inconspicuos clothing. Back in the winter, I was even considering a plate carrier under my winter jacket, but I need the ability to stand for hours. UHMWPE plates were an option, but would have been too bulky for anything but a parka.

I looked into getting Safariland, but was disappointed in their policy disallowing sales to civilians. That really galls me.

I remember I was considering the AR 500 (brand) concealed plate carrier with Hybrid armor. It was available. It's quite inexpensive, but I don't really understand how it compares to other available soft armor because law-enforcement/government is really the only market where this stuff gets used enough to really establish a legitimate reputation. I realize it's tested to NIJ specifications, but that doesn't include things like comfort, wear, and coverage.
 
westernrover said:
I'm interested in concealable armor. I was shopping for it about 6 months ago, but put it off. I haven't had a need for it during the shutdown because everything around me has come to a stop. I have a feeling that in another 5 months, I'm going to want it again. Part of my work involves public speaking and I am frequently in a tourist area where I suspect there is a heightened possibility of a terrorist attack because there has been a number of them in very similar areas. There's always a sense of vulnerability when one draws the attention of others to oneself. Besides politically-motivated attacks, I'm concerned about violence from ED persons. In my eighteen years experience, I've never suffered serious violence, but I have the sense that things are getting worse, not better. FWIW, the state laws do not allow the lawful concealed or open carry of firearms in that area, at least the lawful practice of such is inaccessible to most citizens like myself.

More than simply justifying my interest in armor, I wanted to describe the circumstances where I think concealed armor is better than a plate carrier worn over my clothing. The climate is cool in the summer and cold in winter so it is quite practical to conceal it under inconspicuos clothing. Back in the winter, I was even considering a plate carrier under my winter jacket, but I need the ability to stand for hours. UHMWPE plates were an option, but would have been too bulky for anything but a parka.

I looked into getting Safariland, but was disappointed in their policy disallowing sales to civilians. That really galls me.

I remember I was considering the AR 500 (brand) concealed plate carrier with Hybrid armor. It was available. It's quite inexpensive, but I don't really understand how it compares to other available soft armor because law-enforcement/government is really the only market where this stuff gets used enough to really establish a legitimate reputation. I realize it's tested to NIJ specifications, but that doesn't include things like comfort, wear, and coverage.
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I think that concealed armor offers many advantages over 'overt' rigs.

What kind of threats are you trying to stop?

IIIA stops 44 mag, comes in soft armor platforms and is affordable and lighter weight.

If you are concerned about terrorist attacks, you might consider rifle rated armor. The hard part about that is they are not as comfortable or concealable until you get into serious $.

You will probably want to look at a multi curve plate in a "slick" plate carrier.
 
Corpral_Agarn said:
I think that concealed armor offers many advantages over 'overt' rigs.

What kind of threats are you trying to stop?

IIIA stops 44 mag, comes in soft armor platforms and is affordable and lighter weight.

If you are concerned about terrorist attacks, you might consider rifle rated armor. The hard part about that is they are not as comfortable or concealable until you get into serious $.

You will probably want to look at a multi curve plate in a "slick" plate carrier.
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You never know. But I suppose the most likely threat is a 9mm handgun because it is the most popular and easy to conceal. The AR-15 is also popular and green-tips are widely available. I am not in Las Vegas, but my situation is very similar to the 2017 shooting there in that I have a casino tower looming over a popular, usually crowded tourist area. I remember that following New Years Eve (three months after) I was a little concerned about a copy-cat event. I was working anyway. I'm not sure its really practical for me to wear something to stop green-tips. The steel plates are very heavy and the ceramic ones are both costly and relatively short-lived. Whatever I get, I'd be using it on a pretty regular basis, day in and day out. I'm not familiar with just how fragile ceramic plates are.
 
Corpral_Agarn said:
IIIA stops 44 mag, comes in soft armor platforms and is affordable and lighter weight.
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This can be a little misleading. IIIA is often tested against some types of 44 Magnum and 357 Magnum at certain specified veloties but not all types. It's almost never tested against heavy FMJ magnums. Instead, it is usually tested with JSP in the magnums. It is often tested against 125 gr. FMJ 357 Sig. There is really no assurance of performance against a particular cartridge, bullet type, and velocity until that specific combination is tested.
 
westernrover said:
You never know. But I suppose the most likely threat is a 9mm handgun because it is the most popular and easy to conceal. The AR-15 is also popular and green-tips are widely available. I am not in Las Vegas, but my situation is very similar to the 2017 shooting there in that I have a casino tower looming over a popular, usually crowded tourist area. I remember that following New Years Eve (three months after) I was a little concerned about a copy-cat event. I was working anyway. I'm not sure its really practical for me to wear something to stop green-tips. The steel plates are very heavy and the ceramic ones are both costly and relatively short-lived. Whatever I get, I'd be using it on a pretty regular basis, day in and day out. I'm not familiar with just how fragile ceramic plates are.
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Steel should be avoided, IMO. Especially if you are concerned about "green tip"

Ceramic is not really that fragile. Most have a 5 year warranty.

I don't know what your budget is so it's hard to make a suggestion.

I do know that the "Special Threat" Hesco plates are affordable and built specifically to stop the penetrating carbine rounds. Thin, Single curve, 5.5lbs if I recall.
 
Got a backpack with internal kevlar plates from https://www.leatherbackgear.com

I got the sport which holds my 17" laptop and looks like an urban commuter pack. They have more tactical ones as well. The kevlar plates are very light (for armor) and virtually unnoticeable in a pack. I did shop around for the quicker-to-deploy ripcord style but did not find any to order.

Tip, register with them, put one in your cart and leave the site. In 24 hours they will send you a very good coupon.

 
Corpral_Agarn said:
I do know that the "Special Threat" Hesco plates are affordable and built specifically to stop the penetrating carbine rounds. Thin, Single curve, 5.5lbs if I recall.
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Thanks for the recommendation. I just looked at Hesco and the U210 plates look good to me. The 3810 and 4800 plates would work, but it looks like they're 1"+ thick instead of .56". The level IV plate is rated for M2AP which is not my foremost concern. Other than that, I don't see another tradeoff except that the 3810 is a little less expensive. There's also 4800LV, but it's still thicker at .67", adds a lot of cost for threats of low probability to me, weighs more and doesn't pass NIJ drop tests or comply with backface deformation standards because it omits the foam to allow a lower profile.

Am I right in thinking these U210 plates are a good deal? Can anyone recommend a low visibility/concealment carrier?
 
I would not rely on anything from the NIJ; remember, they are the same ones that gave the thumbs up to use Zylon for body armor. Of course that is what prompted the FBI to begin its own body armor testing protocol. In spite of all the criminal activity at the top levels of the FBI, I'd go with their recommendation over the NIJ regarding body armor.
 
westernrover said:
Thanks for the recommendation. I just looked at Hesco and the U210 plates look good to me. The 3810 and 4800 plates would work, but it looks like they're 1"+ thick instead of .56". The level IV plate is rated for M2AP which is not my foremost concern. Other than that, I don't see another tradeoff except that the 3810 is a little less expensive. There's also 4800LV, but it's still thicker at .67", adds a lot of cost for threats of low probability to me, weighs more and doesn't pass NIJ drop tests or comply with backface deformation standards because it omits the foam to allow a lower profile.

Am I right in thinking these U210 plates are a good deal? Can anyone recommend a low visibility/concealment carrier?
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I haven't used U210 plates, but I think they are a good deal.

For concealment carriers of rifle plates, I had it down to 5 or 6:
Ferro Concepts Slickster (what I purchased)
Spiritus LV119
SKD Pig Brig (cheapest option, I think at $90-100$)
Tactical Tailor Low Vis
Shellback Stealth
Chase Tactical low vis operator (not sure the exact name)

Just make sure that the carrier is correctly sized for the plates. Some outfits like SKD sell proprietary plates and carriers to go with them.
 
So any legal issues with wearing body armor in my State of Illinois? One LEO in the City I live told me that it is illegal to wear armor... Yeah I know about asking the Police about laws...
 
This isn't the legal section of the forum, but according to published information, (https://bulletproofzone.com/blogs/bullet-proof-blog/in-which-states-is-body-armor-legal) body armor is fundamentally legal to possess in all states. Many, maybe even most states, specifically prohibit the use of body armor by convicted felons and by persons committing a violent crime and in some cases when trafficking illegal drugs. There are also now more states with statutes prohibiting the use of armor while participating in protests/demonstrations including marches and parades. Body-armor law violations are misdemeanors unless there is another non-armor felony occurring.

The key point is to recognize that body armor is legal in all the US for lawful persons, even in the post office and at public schools. If you don't want the attention of other Walmart shoppers, keep it concealed.
 
To the above listed items, mostly yes but:

I don't know of a "Safelite Defense"

Safe Life Defense is not an especially reputable company. They do not obviously manufacture, but import from overseas (China?). The products offerings are very opaque, as in it is not clear what all is going on but they appear to be Stealth Armor, either knockoffs, or just another marketing arm of them.

Stealth is run by some of the folks who did Dragon Skin, and if that doesn't ring a bell google a bit then run. They have some odd test info shared, which is untrustworthy (not testing against all LIII threats, etc) so, no. Not on the suggested list.
 
So how come Body Armor isn't tested with FMJ .357 Magnum? Come to think of it, I had never seen that type offered anywhere that sells ammo. .38 Special yes, but...
 
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