Mauser No. 2 (1871)

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DocRock

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Mauser number 2 of a lot won several weeks back at Rock Island Auction Company.

It was listed as an “1871 Mauser” and, as far as I can tell, it was built on an 1871 receiver, full octagon, originally case hardened with some coloring still visible below the stock line. 25.5” heavy full octagonal barrel. Tiny bead front sight in extra wide dovetail for windage adjustment. Large rear sight with replaceable insert (only one) to be used for different heights.

Signs of bodging from a vice clamp on lower left receiver when barrel was removed at some point. Light, well executed engraving on receiver and bolt. Large dramatically turned down bolt handle with fine checkering both sides.

Fenced trigger guard also engraved. Double set trigger, and a remarkably simple, elegant trigger mechanism.

Stock is a quite nice Walnut, pretty beat up on left side, fine checkering at the wrist and a dramatic wedge cheek piece that I don’t know the name for. Swivels in stock and barrel but not dove tailed or soldered. Not sure how that’s connected.

Barrel measures 9.32mm grooves .368”, 9mm lands .355”. Rifling is bright and crisp, obviously deep.

Suspect cartridge is 9.3x48r, or 360 Kurz, a shortened version of the 9.3x72r. But rim diameter is a little wider than the 12.98 of that case. Indeed, it takes a 30-40 case rim 13.78mm (.542”). Can’t find an image or chamber drawing for 9.3x48r anywhere. Any help there would be welcome!
 
So. Mystery ensues. It’s not chambered in anything I can identify. Not 9.3x48R as it’s a bottleneck cartridge. The chamber has no clear step for the case mouth, so a little hard to guess how long it is.The neck is strange - almost a coke bottle shape to it - ideal to seal against blowback. Almost like a Coke bottle. The closest I can get is 9.3x47R. The Germans used a x47 bottleneck cartridge for a bunch of mainly single shot rifles starting in the 1880s. Cartridges of the World doesn't give dimensions. But the shape is right.

Where the effing heck I will find x47R brass is another matter...

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Base is .535"/13.35mm; rim diameter is .604"/15.35mm

I take it those dimensions are from your chamber casting? Donnelly (Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions, p.541) gives the rim as .583" and the base ('head') as .513", and suggests forming from .43 Spanish.

upload_2020-5-14_22-4-37.png

Huntington's carries Bertram cases but not dies: https://www.huntingtons.com/store/search.php?mode=search&page=1&keep_https=yes

However, Lee can make you a custom set of collet neck resizing dies for $70, which is cheaper than some factory dies for oddball cartridges: https://leeprecision.com/custom-collet-necksizing-die-set-7-8-x-14-thread.html

Here's what an 'official' die set can run: https://en.strobl.cz/DS9.5x47R-ch4d-reloading-dies-3/

Some general discussion on handloading this cartridge:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?115918-9-5x47R-loading
 
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Wow. You folks are awesome!

@Dave DeLaurant: incredibly helpful. thanks very much. I will definitely go the Lee route. Saw the CH4D dies earlier today and was not impressed. I had a set of the Lee neck dies made some years ago and have been very happy with them. Really appreciate all that help!

@Jim Watson - That is almost certainly it. The 9.3x47 MB Target has come up several times in research but that's the first time I've seen case dimensions which differ somewhat from the 9.5x47R specs. Very helpful. Thank you!

@troy fairweather - Thanks for the 8mm Lebel suggestion. I bit the bullet and ordered some of the Bertram 24 carat brass :uhoh: But other options will be welcome moving forward.

@BillTell If mine and yours aren't related, that woulld be weird. Yours is in much nicer condition. Gorgeous with the case coloring! Any more info you have on yours would be much appreciated. Mine has no markings whatsoever on it and no provenance. It appears that yours may be newer than mine, based on the more extensive color retention and the more modern barrel-stock attachment.

Thanks very much to all!:thumbup:
 
I haven't seen "Gun 1" yet, but this looks very similar to a .22 I got last year. It was made by Paul Erdelt (if I remember correctly) from a small town in Germany. I was told it's called a "Stalking Gun", and that's why it's got the set triggers. Looks like my gun's big brother. View attachment 916776 View attachment 916777 View attachment 916778 View attachment 916779 View attachment 916780 View attachment 916781 View attachment 916782 View attachment 916782 View attachment 916783

While these rifles fit the profile and description of what the Brits called "stalking rifles", the Germans called them "Teschings", originally meaning relatively small bore (under 40 cal) rifles meant for target and small to medium game, the term came to mean small plinking rifles (many of them of the Flobert type design of somewhat suspect nature). Once the 22lr became reliable and widely adopted, the Tesching's days were numbered.

The 1871 Mauser action derivatives like ours were called "Mauserbuchsen" or tiny Mausers.
 
Took it back to bare, dry wood. Tried steaming some of the dents out. I think I’m doing it wrong because it didn’t seem very successful ;)

Trying to decide whether to give it a light Walnut stain. Otherwise, the BLO finish lends a kind of yellow tinge to it.

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You can add color to your BLO. For a reddish brown, add some Mahogany stain to some BLO. A 5 to 1 mix is a good starting point. Rub it in really good and let it sit for a couple of hours before wiping it dry.
 
DocRock, I had posted a thread on here,
Anyone heard of this gun maker?
quite a while back when I was considering purchasing this gun. I also have a couple photos of markings under the barrel. I thought I had a closeup of the Paul Erdelt on the top of the barrel, but I'll have to add that in the future. I actually bought the postcard from a guy in Germany. It shows Paul Erdelt's "Shingle" hanging outside of his gun shop in Neustadt. Although concrete info on this guy is not really there, from what I gathered, he operated from the late 1800's until about 1946. Somewhere on here is another thread of mine where someone actually did some decoding of these marks, and figured out that some of them related to powder charges done in respect to firing the rifle. Unfortunately, my barrel is completely "shot out", and despite days of all types of cleaning and scrubbing, the best I could do was about a 18" group at 25yds. So while there is controversy over whether or not Paul Erdelt actually MADE guns, or was like the original wally mart, that sold other mfs. guns under his name, I come down on the side of him at least MODIFYING the guns, hence all the engraving, checkering, and metalwork that looks so similar from my gun to your gun. I've also found a couple other examples of Paul Erdelt's work on the internet, and again, very similar to mine and yours. Mine was not advertised as a Mauser, and made no claim to be one. Yours doesn't seem to have Paul's name on the barrel. Maybe they were just from similar areas in Germany? Maybe same time frames where competitors made similar styles? I'm currently posting another thread, taking advice on whether to re-line this barrel so it can shoot a group again. I don't think it would really hurt collector value. I just love the way the gun looks, and it's just plain cool to shoot a gun that's over 100 years old! (And I think someone referenced that "71" number as 1871 when the gun was tested with those powders) If anybody else can shed some light here, I'd love to hear. Take a good look at your barrel again, and see if there's any faint engravings either top or bottom. Guns 085.jpg Guns 083.jpg
 
DocRock, I had posted a thread on here,
Anyone heard of this gun maker?
quite a while back when I was considering purchasing this gun. I also have a couple photos of markings under the barrel. I thought I had a closeup of the Paul Erdelt on the top of the barrel, but I'll have to add that in the future. I actually bought the postcard from a guy in Germany. It shows Paul Erdelt's "Shingle" hanging outside of his gun shop in Neustadt. Although concrete info on this guy is not really there, from what I gathered, he operated from the late 1800's until about 1946. Somewhere on here is another thread of mine where someone actually did some decoding of these marks, and figured out that some of them related to powder charges done in respect to firing the rifle. Unfortunately, my barrel is completely "shot out", and despite days of all types of cleaning and scrubbing, the best I could do was about a 18" group at 25yds. So while there is controversy over whether or not Paul Erdelt actually MADE guns, or was like the original wally mart, that sold other mfs. guns under his name, I come down on the side of him at least MODIFYING the guns, hence all the engraving, checkering, and metalwork that looks so similar from my gun to your gun. I've also found a couple other examples of Paul Erdelt's work on the internet, and again, very similar to mine and yours. Mine was not advertised as a Mauser, and made no claim to be one. Yours doesn't seem to have Paul's name on the barrel. Maybe they were just from similar areas in Germany? Maybe same time frames where competitors made similar styles? I'm currently posting another thread, taking advice on whether to re-line this barrel so it can shoot a group again. I don't think it would really hurt collector value. I just love the way the gun looks, and it's just plain cool to shoot a gun that's over 100 years old! (And I think someone referenced that "71" number as 1871 when the gun was tested with those powders) If anybody else can shed some light here, I'd love to hear. Take a good look at your barrel again, and see if there's any faint engravings either top or bottom.View attachment 916968 View attachment 916969


@BillTell - thanks for sharing the info. I have looked everywhere with a magnifying glass and no proof marks. In the reference to Mauser Buchsen, it was said that these "were a staple of the Zella-Melhis gun trade", referencing a geographical area in Germany, but I don't know if Neustadt is in that area.

By the way, your proof marks mean that your rifle was proofed in accordance with 1891 Law for 0.05 grams (0.8 grains) fine black powder (M-71) and 1 gram (15 grains) lead bullet, making it the .22 "zimmer", a parlour or gallery gun. And I believe the 611 dates its proof to June, 1911. Pretty cool!

Here's info on decoding the proof mark:

http://www.littlegun.be/ma_collection/allemagne/a20de20pistolet20salon20gb.htm

https://www.thefirearmsforum.com/threads/unusual-single-shot-pistol-b-u-crown-proofs.71536/
Since mine has no proof marks, it must predate the 1891 Proof law, which is consistent with the chambering in 9.3x47R, an 1880s phenomenon.
 
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