I think I’m done with ArmsList for buying and selling.

Funny, the only times I've ever bought off of Armslist was from an FFL.

I have sold4guns on Armslist over the past 4 years. I only do F2F at an FFL. Never ever had a issues that way. However scammers have tried to get me to ship the gun directly to them. My favorite was a fellow who emailed me what he claimed to be his FFL paperwork and suggested that since hw was an FFL I could just ship to him. Turned out his license was forged which I found out by calling the ATF.

"Shipping NO" in posts on many Rem 700 rifles. Meaning ftf in state?

I guess this means no ffl or shipping involved?

ARMSLIST was designed for local interactions, please use the site accordingly.

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From - https://www.armslist.com/info/faqs Face to Face.


I would suggest doing business on GunBroker.

daniel craig said:

Maybe it’s just a me thing then. Maybe I intimidate people or they just weren’t that interested and needed an excuse to get out of the situation.

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The only other times I have bought a gun not from an FFL has been from a couple of local online forums I belong to. The general rule among the forum crowd is that a driver's license and a concealed permit (or pistol purchase permit) is required. I've had two people request that we do a transfer at an FFL and I had no problem with that. I know some people will balk at a bill-of-sale, though. Doesn't bother me, I've done that, too.

In Ohio, you don’t need an FFL for person to person so I don’t. I’m not a scammer, but why would I if I don’t have to? Now I do say “Ohio CHL holders only” for a good faith attempt to make sure people are legal...but that is beyond the requirement too and I’ve had people back out of my deals. So-be-it.

There are a bunch of folks out there who do not want their name tied to a serial number in any way. They don’t trust that 4473s won’t find their way to a registry somehow in the future.

Many pride themselves on how many firearms they own that cannot be paper trailed to them.

As such they don’t buy online and only do FTF private sales. These are not necessarily bad people or criminals and almost always they are fine people. Just worried about big brother. The more restrictive states are t he more likely they will be to entice this type of behavior out of regular people.

I don’t really care about 4473s myself and will buy and sell through any legal means.

daniel craig said:

Because an FFL transfer can protect the buyer too. Most FFLs I've gone to will at least run a cursory check on the serial number to make sure it's not stolen. Plus, if something happens there's less culpability on the buyer because by involving an FFL they look a lot more legitimate in there intent.

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States differ. Police don’t pull you over and give you a gold star if you drive 53 in a 55 zone. If you follow the letter of the law, culpability is limited.

daniel craig said:

Every time I try to sell something and ask people for their FFLs address they clam up and either ghost or say some BS like FTF only (which you can do by meeting someone at the FFL....) or completely ghost.

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For many people, the primary reason to buy used guns instead of new is so that there is no record of them owning it. That's means an FFL can't be involved.

daniel craig said:

Why? What's so bad about a bill of sale?

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Same reason as above. It's bad enough that the government is involved in some sales. Last thing I want is some random person that I don't know having my info and knowing that I likely have valuable firearms in my home.

earlthegoat2 said:

There are a bunch of folks out there who do not want their name tied to a serial number in any way. They don’t trust that 4473s won’t find their way to a registry somehow in the future.

Many pride themselves on how many firearms they own that cannot be paper trailed to them.

As such they don’t buy online and only do FTF private sales. These are not necessarily bad people or criminals and almost always they are fine people. Just worried about big brother. The more restrictive states are t he more likely they will be to entice this type of behavior out of regular people.

I don’t really care about 4473s myself and will buy and sell through any legal means.

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This, I know a LOT of these people.
They view a 4473 as a direct registration to the ATF, FBI, and every one else in Government. Some of them know it’s not but they don’t trust it to stay that way and ultimately they view it as registration and if you bring it up they’re done talking.

DeepSouth said:

This, I know a LOT of these people.
They view a 4473 as a direct registration to the ATF, FBI, and every one else in Government. Some of them know it’s not but they don’t trust it to stay that way and ultimately they view it as registration and if you bring it up they’re done talking.

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I've had this discussion with my dad more times than I can count. I know guns have to be "logged in" and "logged out" or whatever the official phrase is anytime an FFL is involved. But there's nothing on any 4473 form I've ever filled out that involved a serial number. Handgun or long gun...unless something has changed, that's it. States may vary, but in Ohio in a FTF deal, I'm legal as long as I verify that I'm selling to another Ohio resident via photo ID and asking them if they're legally allowed to own firearms. Of course I can go above and beyond (CHP, go through FFL) but I'm not required to.

Just how does a FFL run a check to see if the gun is stolen? How does having a FFL involved protect the seller?

In a Free State there's no reason to meet at a FFL for a face to face sale.

I don't require nor do I want a Bill of Sale. What does it prove? How exactly can it protect you?

Howland937 said:

I've had this discussion with my dad more times than I can count. I know guns have to be "logged in" and "logged out" or whatever the official phrase is anytime an FFL is involved. But there's nothing on any 4473 form I've ever filled out that involved a serial number. Handgun or long gun...unless something has changed, that's it. States may vary, but in Ohio in a FTF deal, I'm legal as long as I verify that I'm selling to another Ohio resident via photo ID and asking them if they're legally allowed to own firearms. Of course I can go above and beyond (CHP, go through FFL) but I'm not required to.

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EVERY 4473 has the serial number of the firearm. It's in the part the FFL fills out. As a buyer you aren't involved in that part of the 4473.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

I refer you to section B.

I have sold four or five guns this year already through Armslist and had no problems. All sales were FTF at the local sporting goods store. I get more annoyed when people engage in a long negotiation with you debating price wanting tons of pictures etc., you both agree on the price, and then you never hear from then again. Don't waste my time.

I stand corrected.

Texas10mm said:

EVERY 4473 has the serial number of the firearm. It's in the part the FFL fills out. As a buyer you aren't involved in that part of the 4473.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

I refer you to section B.

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Is it different now than previously? Years ago an FFL dealer I knew offered me a package deal on like 8 cheap/junk/broken revolvers. I commented that it could be a red flag and he said he would only write up 2 since they didn't need the serial #s.

Howland937 said:

I stand corrected.


Is it different now than previously? Years ago an FFL dealer I knew offered me a package deal on like 8 cheap/junk/broken revolvers. I commented that it could be a red flag and he said he would only write up 2 since they didn't need the serial #s.

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There was a Section B when I was selling firearms starting in 1980. Since the GCA of '68 required that information on the then new 4473 I would say it's been in place since 1968.

I don't know what the dealer told you, but if those firearms had serial numbers he was required to put them on the 4473, also, since this was a multiple handgun sale he also had to fill out a 3310 form, one copy of which is sent to the ATF. Here's the new electronic version https://www.atf.gov/file/61426/download

FFL fees cost money which then makes a fair deal worthless. And when people ghost, they just save you time instead of dragging you along.

I lived in a state that required FFL transfer for handguns. Most shops charge a minimum of $50 for person/person for various reasons.

If I'm selling a used Ruger for $250, a person has no incentive to purchase it as they can get a new one for $300. Basically, it ruined handgun sales on the used market for anything $600 or less.

Now that I live in a state without FFL transfers, I'm not dropping extra coin for a transfer if I find a used gun I want.

Even if you just want to meet there and not do a transfer, the buyer or seller may not know that.

And often when I read ads for guns about "bill of sale with a copy of your ID and CCP", I find those people are hard to deal with and it's not worth the effort. It's like reading "no low balls, I know what I got". Dude already has a defensive attitude, I'm not wasting my time with an ex-hall-monitor who thinks they are an authority.

So that might be the case... You mention FFL and the seller/buyer rolls their eyes cuz they don't wanna deal with extra fees, extra hassles, or a guy who thinks he needs to interrogate the future buyer/seller.

When it comes to selling and buying, people get emotional and there's a sliding scale of happiness between the buyers and sellers.

daniel craig said:

There seems to be not a single person on ArmsList willing to deal with an FFL. Every time I try to sell something and ask people for their FFLs address they clam up and either ghost or say some BS like FTF only (which you can do by meeting someone at the FFL....) or completely ghost. I’m not kidding. Every. Time.

It’s not much better buying. When I find an FFL in between me and the seller or even when I offer to make the whole drive myself the mere mention of FFL seems to make people scared.

Is ArmsList full of scammers and crooks who don’t actually have what they’re trying to sell or are trying to make a purchase without a background check? Or is everyone of the opinion that FFL = Cop?

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What state are you in? And what are your states rules about transfers?