Light defensive load for 38sp with AXR

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axman64

axman64

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Not only am I recoil sensitive, my work requires a certain even dexterity in both hands. Unfortunately, after shooting my LCR I start favoring my right hand due to the impact of recoil and muzzle rise. Now I am looking into a light recoiling 38Sp rd that can still function as a self defense round and am very, very intrigued by the ARX. Does anybody have any experience with this rd, reloading it and or experimenting with different charges? I like to practice with what I carry.

In the past I have loaded 158 SWc over 2.8 Bullseye as a practice rd for my S&W 64, but I never considered them for self defense.

I am not a gun guy per se, so please be gentle.
 
My statistics are completely made up to make a point...

99% of the people will never be in a person on person crime, of those....
99% will never have to draw a weapon, of those....
99% will draw but never fire, of those....
99% will fire, hit and stop, of those....
will run into that stupid low fraction that requires real engagement...multiple rounds, etc.

Your likelihood of shooting is very small. Most of us prepare for the worst imaginable, not reality. Carry, if you choose. Practice routinely. Accurate hits matter much more than caliber.....
 
My present .38 is the 135 gr Gold Dot "short barrel" which is not unpleasant in a steel framed gun but is "hostilities only" in an Airweight.

The large majority I shoot is rather mild minor power factor as used in IDPA and USPSA.
 
rabid wombat said:
My statistics are completely made up to make a point...

99% of the people will never be in a person on person crime, of those....
99% will never have to draw a weapon, of those....
99% will draw but never fire, of those....
99% will fire, hit and stop, of those....
will run into that stupid low fraction that requires real engagement...multiple rounds, etc.

Your likelihood of shooting is very small. Most of us prepare for the worst imaginable, not reality. Carry, if you choose. Practice routinely. Accurate hits matter much more than caliber.....
Click to expand...


Agreed,

that's why I carry a snubnose and not a wonder nine with 3 spare mags and 2 backup guns.

But at this time my choices are: carry a 22lr, a 32 H&R or a downloaded 38Sp. I have the 38 Sp - and I need a round I can practice with and I know that it will hit where I aim at. I have been in a situation where I had to draw my gun before, so I know how quickly crazy stuff CAN happen.
 
I would recommend a 110gr lead cast projectile and would highly recommend trail boss powders for reduced loads, in fact id like to get a couple ARX rounds for 38 and load a few. With trailboss you can measure the bullet depth and load trailboss starting at 10% less than your capacity available after measuring bullet depth, I've loaded alot of pistol and rifle rounds this way and have had great success using it for reduced/subsoil loadings
 
Lokichoki said:
I would recommend a 110gr lead cast projectile and would highly recommend trail boss powders for reduced loads, in fact id like to get a couple ARX rounds for 38 and load a few. With trailboss you can measure the bullet depth and load trailboss starting at 10% less than your capacity available after measuring bullet depth, I've loaded alot of pistol and rifle rounds this way and have had great success using it for reduced/subsoil loadings
Click to expand...


Thank you, this was EXACTLY what I was looking for. I started researching Trailboss powder and really like what I see. Seems to work better in the powder hopper too. I will definitely load some AXR rounds and see what they can do. Just need some precise loading data for them. Not brave enough to experiment :)
 
It throws an ok consistency with my lee powder perfect thingamabob but I prefer to use my digital scale and the lee dippers and my trickler to get most cartridges loaded. I haven't thrown a charge with 38spc but I was going to load my 160gr with 3.5gr as well as my 110gr, if you youtube search 38spc cowboy loads (winl wink) you'll get a guy I cant remember but hes loading what he calls Gnat Farts haha
 
A 110gr cast/coated bullet in a snubnose is an excellent suggestion. Lead or coated bullet tend to give higher velocities than their jacketed/plated counterparts for the same load.

I started testing 110gr gr bullets last year in a 2" bbl'd 38spl (bullet on right).
xHUCNJn.jpg

Those are cast from a cramer mold and are called "indoor bullets" better known a parlor or gallery bullets. They weigh out @ 113gr coated with 8/9bhn alloy.

While the loads I tested last year were not mild, they were impressive enough for me to want to take a 2nd look at that bullet and do some serous testing. What impressed me was how mild the 1100fps+ loads were that I tested last year. There's a huge difference between the 110gr/1100fps load and the 158gr/950fps load in that snubnosed 38spl.

A +/- 850fps load with that bullets would be extremely soft shooting.
 
From what I've read and seen, ARX bullets, just like hollow points need upper velocities to be effective. So light loading may give no better performance than solids...
 
Yes those composite projectiles can get a good charge and due to there weight keep recoil low, I ran those cast 160gr round nose with 3.5gr trailboss into a gel block some guy had at the range and it went in and out and poked a hole through about 23inches so yea. "If you got a hole in you you weren't born with, your probably gonna die" the late Barry ;)
 
axman64 said:
That's what I did wrong?
Click to expand...
You likely used the breakfast of past champions using Coors. :D

You might want try swaged lead bullets. Hornady & Speer offer a 158 gr HP that is supposed to expand reliably. They are lubed during the swaging process, so the lube is part of the bullet.
 
Back when I first started loading for 38 sp shot a lot of hollow-based wadcutters. Then I got the idea of reversing them and using them as a hollow point. With a light load of Unique or Bullseye they make a super HD load that will not go through the wall and take out the neighbor's cat after putting a man on the floor. Even at 750-800 fps they would expand in clay to twice their diameter. Recoil is light and they are plenty accurate enough for up close and personal.
 
If I only had a light .38, I'd be okay with WCs. I typically put 158 grn +P SWCHP .38s in .357s for defense.

Before taking anyone's word for it, I'd try the load you think you'd like to use. Make sure it
>Shoots to point of aim
>Is controllable
>Penetrates through at least 2 milk jugs full of water, but not more than 4
 
Lucky Gunner has a fairly extensive collection of gel tests. Low recoil options that may be of interest (I chose 2" barrel):

Wadcutter: no expansion, reasonable pen of about 15.5"
Hornady 90-grain FTX Lite: about 11.5" pen, .43 open
Hornady 110-grain FTX, standard pressure: .44 opened, about 14" pen

Personally, I would probably go with WC, just because I'm cheap and overconfident, and don't believe in the efficacy of handguns in general (read: I expect to empty a small .38 in a defensive situation, then either use it as a bludgeon, or fall back behind cover to reload). Defensive ammunition that is perfectly manageable in a steel gun with a longer barrel is no fun in an alloy snubby. Hits on target with rounds that penetrate at least 12" but less than 18" would be my goal. YMMV.

John
 
38 Special is a good choice. If you are customizing a SD round, forget about a semiauto 9mm. You need too much recoil to get the action to cycle properly. I played around with uberlight 38 loads in my 4" Service Six. 2.5 Red Dot was the lowest I tried and with the Lee 358-158-RF I averaged 620-680 depending on the weather. 3.0g RD got me to the consistent 700 fps and with that heavy gun, you could hardly feel the recoil.

Trail Boss works well but it is no better than Red Dot, Titewad, Extra Lite, Clays or any other fast shotshell powder other than it costs more and will be easier to identify a double charge. 4.4g TB will get you about 750 fps out of a 4" gun and fill up the case to where the powder sits just below the bullet.
 
I read thru this and do not see any suggestions for a 65 gr, ARX 9mm round, I found a box of them and might as well shoot em, any suggestions? I have BE86, Unique and Bullseye. Thx
 
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