I think I’m done with ArmsList for buying and selling.

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daniel craig said:
Maybe it’s just a me thing then. Maybe I intimidate people or they just weren’t that interested and needed an excuse to get out of the situation.
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Only tried to sell once via Armslist..all was OK until I asked which FFL should I meet him at for the BGC..he insisted he wasn't a felon, he would like to do it at a McDonalds parking lot..FTF...so...adios to that.
 
I've never been asked to buy/sell a gun through an FFL, but I don't think I would if asked to. Most times I do an Armlist transaction it's a 5 minute transfer with a handshake at the gas station a mile from my house or in a parking lot along my commute and it's not worth my time to add more hassle than that. Nothing I buy is so rare that I can't find another seller that is willing to do a traditional FTF sale, and whenever I sell something I have enough inquiries that I'm not going to bother with the one guy that's being anal when I can just skip him and go to someone more reasonable.
 
If they paid for the transfer I would do it. I just check ID and use common sense.

I dont think FFL transfer protects anybody from anything. FFL’s can unknowingly buy/sell guns used in crimes or stolen.

Ive been pulled over 4 times with a gun on me. The cop has never even had me take it out of the holster. Certainly never had a cop run the serial number.

Plus lets say the gun was stolen, used in a murder, then sold on Armslist. How would somebody ever know it was at your house??

You are probably more likely to have cops knocking on your door about a stolen gun if you bought it from a dealer since there is a chain of paperwork.
 
Howland937 said:
Pressure cookers actually. Don't want my Crock-Pot getting a bad rap. Otherwise agree wholeheartedly.
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Your crock pot isn't completely sealed less of a hazard and plenty of air gaps riven gas expansion.

daniel craig said:
In my state that's illegal now.
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That's because of tyrannical laws put in place by leaders of tyranny, Cuomo, afraid of we the people, militia, owning firearms.

I've given guns to family members, bought from yard sales, and private individuals. I haven't done this recently though.
 
MikeInOr said:
Just because I technically purchased the firearm from the FFL DOES NOT imply that the FFL is responsible for the provenance. My copy of the paperwork that I came home with shows that the firearm was transferred from the FFL to me. When law enforcement comes after the firearm in my possession for what ever reason they are going to use the FFL's paperwork to track who it came from and who it went to.



In Oregon those were the good old days but they don't exist anymore. I don't like the system as it is but I have to live with it if I want to purchase a private party firearm and not commit a felony. I did purchase firearms from friends before the law was passed but I know every person I purchased a firearm from very well and I still know which person every firearm came from. I have never done a private party firearm purchase from a stranger... until after the law was passed and an FFL was required. I never trusted a stranger well enough to purchase a firearm from them without going through an FFL. Even more so I have NEVER considered selling to a stranger without going through an FFL. How could I possibly know if they are a felon or not. Spending $100+ to swap my 1911 for my buddy's CZ is just NUTS though!
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You must live in one of the few counties in the valley where LEO might actually enforce this unconstitutional law. Last I heard most of the sheriffs on the east side said they had no time to dick with this mess.
 
MikeInOr said:
Such records would go a VERY long way in court when I am being prosecuted for the drive by murders that were committed with the firearm that is currently in my possession.
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Umm... not really. Unless they are Notarized they are just pieces of random paper.

Besides, how often do you come across police asking to inspect your firearms? I've never had it happen in my lifetime.
 
Texas10mm said:
You must live in one of the few counties in the valley where LEO might actually enforce this unconstitutional law. Last I heard most of the sheriffs on the east side said they had no time to dick with this mess.
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If you aren't going to follow the law why follow any law? Make your own silencer without a Form 1. Convert your semi to a full auto. M1 to M2 conversion is super easy and doesn't require any changes to the receiver. Do you really think the 1934, 1968 and 1986 laws effectively banning the production and ownership of full auto weapons are constitutional? Saw off some shotguns for someone that you meet at the local diner... wait, that one didn't work out so well.

Just because I follow a particular law doesn't mean I support or like that particular law!
 
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FFGCOLORADO said:
Only tried to sell once via Armslist..all was OK until I asked which FFL should I meet him at for the BGC..he insisted he wasn't a felon, he would like to do it at a McDonalds parking lot..FTF...so...adios to that.
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I've bought and sold guns in parking lots at Walmarts, gas stations, hardware stores, local diners and once even a McDonalds parking lot. Perfectly normal and legal in most of the country.
 
748 said:
I blame the huge influx of first time pandemic hysteria buyers.
They have no idea what any of this is.
They can't comprehend that you can't legally buy a gun off the internet, because according to the gun grabbers they have always listened to anyone can buy a machine gun with a silencer off the internet for $100.
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I blame (at least partially) the many long time gun owners who seem to think that you have to have a BC to buy a gun. Fact is, in most of the country, you do not.
 
Texas10mm said:
Umm... not really. Unless they are Notarized they are just pieces of random paper.

Besides, how often do you come across police asking to inspect your firearms? I've never had it happen in my lifetime.
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I disagree, I bought this gun on this date from this individual will go a long way in inducing reasonable doubt. Whether it be a stolen firearm or a firearm used in a crime. I don't know when I bought it and who I bought it from is not nearly as effective.

Having previously had a C&R license it really isn't that big of a deal or that big of a hassle to keep records.
 
MikeInOr said:
If you aren't going to follow the law why follow any law? Make your own silencer without a Form 1. Convert your semi to a full auto. M1 to M2 conversion is super easy and doesn't require any changes to the receiver. Do you really think the 1934, 1968 and 1986 laws effectively banning the production and ownership of full auto weapons are constitutional? Saw off some shotguns for someone that you meet at the local diner... wait, that one didn't work out so well.

Just because I follow a particular law doesn't mean I support or like that particular law!
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I was very displeased when I lived in california. They would pass an unconstitutional law and then the sheriff would refuse to enforce it. It sounds all good, until someone comes along and enforces it. If we have a problem with a law, we need to speak the heck up, not ignore it until it bites us in the butt.
 
Maybe it is partly generational as far as a written record? I look at an email, a text, or a forum post as being a record forever. For someone who was raised on a party line, data collection and storage could be unfathomable.
 
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FFGCOLORADO said:
Only tried to sell once via Armslist..all was OK until I asked which FFL should I meet him at for the BGC..he insisted he wasn't a felon, he would like to do it at a McDonalds parking lot..FTF...so...adios to that.
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Nothing would aggravate a buyer more than the seller not mentioning that he has additional requirements or what is required by state law. If your state requires an FFL for a nonlicensee to nonlicensee transfer or if thats your personal requirement then that should be mentioned in the ad. It will save time and effort for both of you.
 
243winxb said:
A record shows your not knowingly buying stolen firearms.

And a thief will not want you having his true identity & place of residence. He will not go thru with the sale.
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A normal person will not want a stranger from the internet to have that info either.

I'm not a thief, but I will not do a private sale for someone who wants pictures of my personal info.

They'll get my first name and phone number from communication. If they are feeling spicy, they can write down my car's plate when I show up.

Plus the paper trail of texts or emails.

That's plenty of info.

There's no way I'm letting someone get my place if residence on an internet gun sale. If you're that paranoid, then you can clearly see that giving away a home location of someone who may have more guns is inviting criminal behavior.
 
HB said:
Ive been pulled over 4 times with a gun on me. The cop has never even had me take it out of the holster. Certainly never had a cop run the serial number.
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Some buddies are local cops here and I asked about running serial numbers over day, they claim they can't run numbers unless they suspect the gun was used in a crime.

Plus, since there isn't an online registration, there will be a lengthy process to get a full report.

Local jurisdictions may have a quick sheet of reportedly stolen guns if it was reported to them.
 
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A number of years ago I sold a gun that was eventually used in a shooting. Under Illinois law we're required to keep a record of a gun sale for 10 years. When a couple of LEO's showed up at my house asking about the gun I was able to produce the record, including the buyer's name and address. They were polite and professional, thanked me and told me I was in no way responsible. I wonder how this would have turned out had I not had a written record of the sale. My point is not to defend Illinois gun laws, which are draconian but that I will never sell a gun without a written record of that sale including the buyer's name and address, even if I'm living in a state where it's not required. I understand people's objection to this, but weigh that against protecting myself. If they don't want to provide it I understand with no hard feelings but I won't sell them the gun. It's a good idea to make sure you're covered in case a gun you sell winds up being used in a crime.
 
JeeperCreeper said:
Some buddies are local cops here and I asked about running serial numbers over day, they claim they can't run numbers unless they suspect the gun was used in a crime.
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I'm thinking they can also check a serial number any time there's probable cause...whether the firearm is suspect or the person in possession is suspect.
 
TomJ said:
A number of years ago I sold a gun that was eventually used in a shooting. Under Illinois law we're required to keep a record of a gun sale for 10 years. When a couple of LEO's showed up at my house asking about the gun I was able to produce the record, including the buyer's name and address. They were polite and professional, thanked me and told me I was in no way responsible. I wonder how this would have turned out had I not had a written record of the sale. My point is not to defend Illinois gun laws, which are draconian but that I will never sell a gun without a written record of that sale including the buyer's name and address, even if I'm living in a state where it's not required. I understand people's objection to this, but weigh that against protecting myself. If they don't want to provide it I understand with no hard feelings but I won't sell them the gun. It's a good idea to make sure you're covered in case a gun you sell winds up being used in a crime.
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In your case, it's certainly a catch 22. You have to retain records for sales because of gun registration. If there's no registration, there's nothing to show that you previously owned said gun. Which in turn makes record of sale needless.
 
Howland937 said:
In your case, it's certainly a catch 22. You have to retain records for sales because of gun registration. If there's no registration, there's nothing to show that you previously owned said gun. Which in turn makes record of sale needless.
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Agreed. As others mentioned the serial numbers are on the 4473 so the trail will ultimately lead to the original buyer, which was me in my case. As long as that information is on the 4473 the original buyer, if not subsequent buyers had better cover themselves.
 
Howland937 said:
I'm thinking they can also check a serial number any time there's probable cause...whether the firearm is suspect or the person in possession is suspect.
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My understanding is that they can inspect your firearm at any time for their safety, provided they have a reason to stop you. If the serial number is visible, they can legally do whatever they want with it. If the serial number is not immediately visible, then they need probable cause to gain access to the serial number. Even a piece of black tape hiding the serial number would require more than a safety check to remove.
 
I've done a few FTF from Armslist. meet at local PD or SO and present in state D.L. and CCW permit.
 
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