Jim Rau
member
I just wish Marlin would offer a good lever gun in 350 Legend. 
Straight wall cartridge budget bolt action rifle
- Thread starter Hog huntin Harry
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Absolutely!
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I have often thought it would be really interesting for Ruger or some other major manufacturer to resurrect the .44AutoMag, .45WinMag or something similar and chamber it in semi-auto, magazine fed rifles. Something like the original Police Carbine in a gas operated .44AutoMag with 20-30rd magazines and a low power variable scope would be awesome.
.45winmag, or 450 bushmaster, Mini would be a must have....
Captcurt
Member
Mossberg has a Patriot in 450 BM and a Bantam in 350 Legend Ruger has a 350 and Savage Axis in 350.
Please point me to the $400 .357 & .44 lever guns.
I have thousands of revolver cartridges. No idea why anyone would think I would want to buy a rifle in an expensive new cartridge, instead of shooting the ammunition I already own..
illinoisburt
Member
Not sure what point you are trying to make. There are plenty of 44 mag and other straightwall rifles in the price point. People just aren't rushing out to dump their shotguns in favor of them yet. New shotguns are cheap. Sorry to say but low cost is a big part of the hunting market.
Single shot under $400
https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/he...magnum-break-open-rifle#repChildCatid=5025693
Lever under $600
https://www.classicfirearms.com/rossi-920442013-r92-lever-action/
Single shot under $400
https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/he...magnum-break-open-rifle#repChildCatid=5025693
Lever under $600
https://www.classicfirearms.com/rossi-920442013-r92-lever-action/
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Those Rossi would sometimes be in the 450 range here, now tho you MIGHT get one for 550.
earlthegoat2
Member
I just wish Marlin would offer a good lever gun in 350 Legend.
At this point, it’s probably more likely Henry would offer one with the way Remington/Marlin is being handled recently.
All I know is that if a manufacturer produces a 350 Legend lever gun before a 450 Bushmaster I will have a sissy fit and then probably go out and buy said 350 Legend lever gun.
I put my 336 450 Bushmaster conversion on hold until the Rona passes by.
After shipping and FFL, a mediocre-quality rifle with bad sights, for $590.
danez71
Member
$625-$650 in CA.
Most FFLs jack up out of state transfers and I think CA DROS is about another $10 for private party transfers.
Most FFLs jack up out of state transfers and I think CA DROS is about another $10 for private party transfers.
illinoisburt
Member
No one was arguing otherwise. Most of the hunting market (and gun market in general) is low end. There are plenty of nicer options for more money, however convincing people to spend more does not always work out. The original question was whether or not a bolt gun in a straightwall deer legal cartridge for $400 or so would be met with strong demand. At least from what I've seen in the general hunting community, I think the majority of shotgunners would not be flocking to the store to swap since we already have some options available which they apparantly are not using. To bring over big market share will need to have either a huge perceived advantage (traditional bottleneck centerfires) or be enticingly inexpensive. Budget hunting shotguns and rifles are mostly well under $300 out the door.
sevt_chevelle
Member
I lived in Iowa when they went from shotgun only to straight, the 5-6 gun shops I stopped at, it wasn't 357/44 mag rifles flying off the shelf it was 450 bushmaster mostly ARs. Me personally, I have no desire for a bolt gun or lever gun in 44, I built a 450 bushmaster AR. I can build an AR to exactly fit my needs, kinda hard to do with a bolt/lever gun.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Your theory has already been proven wrong in the current market. The Ruger American .450's have sold like hotcakes. As I said, your pricing schedule is way out of date. Entry level rifles are mostly over $400.
illinoisburt
Member
Weird that the local Academy store has a bunch of 770 for $259, Axis for $279, Compass $299, Patriot $299, 783 $299 right now. ADLs and Americans are $379. All of them had sales or rebates for $30-75 off during hunting season. Maybe stores price higher in your neighborhood?
I have a Winchester XPR, which I do not consider an entry-level rifle, for less than $300 after rebate. I regularly see Thompson/ Contender bolt-actions at a price that would put them in your hands at about $350.
However, it's hard to find inexpensive .357 and .44 rifles. I looked very hard for inexpensive .357 options a month or so ago. Hard to find, especially bolt-actions.
John
However, it's hard to find inexpensive .357 and .44 rifles. I looked very hard for inexpensive .357 options a month or so ago. Hard to find, especially bolt-actions.
John
350-450s about what any of those go for here, tho axis will often be 300ish, most of the time RAs are just over 400.
Levers run 550 for a stainless rossi to 800-1050 for a marlin depending on "stuff"
ARs run 500 and up
IMO, theres a market for cheaper non-auto loading pccs (that arnt singles), but it would be relatively small.
Again IMO, guys that would BUY a straight walled bolt simply because of hunting regs, are also probably more likely to go to straight wall rifle rounds, simply because they are more powerful. Why buy the .357 when u can get another 500fps from the legend, or the .44 when there is the bushmaster.
Now folks who want it for other reasons, like ammo compatibility, low recoil, and cause they are fun, would be MY guess as to the market niche. Those guys are also usually willing to spend more to get what they want, but also more likely to gravitate to lever guns or semis.
I honestly think a low cost 9mm and or .45 bolt gun would do better than a .357 or .44.
It would allow the same fun factor, and most of the same functionality short of medium game, but with reduced ammo cost, and lower manufacturing costs (so hopefully lower otd cost). For the guy who goes and buys a 400 dollar .450 to hunt with, buying another 400 dollar .45 for cheap ammo fun might be more attractive than buying a 5-800 dollar .44 that dosent do either quite as well/cheaply.
Levers run 550 for a stainless rossi to 800-1050 for a marlin depending on "stuff"
ARs run 500 and up
IMO, theres a market for cheaper non-auto loading pccs (that arnt singles), but it would be relatively small.
Again IMO, guys that would BUY a straight walled bolt simply because of hunting regs, are also probably more likely to go to straight wall rifle rounds, simply because they are more powerful. Why buy the .357 when u can get another 500fps from the legend, or the .44 when there is the bushmaster.
Now folks who want it for other reasons, like ammo compatibility, low recoil, and cause they are fun, would be MY guess as to the market niche. Those guys are also usually willing to spend more to get what they want, but also more likely to gravitate to lever guns or semis.
I honestly think a low cost 9mm and or .45 bolt gun would do better than a .357 or .44.
It would allow the same fun factor, and most of the same functionality short of medium game, but with reduced ammo cost, and lower manufacturing costs (so hopefully lower otd cost). For the guy who goes and buys a 400 dollar .450 to hunt with, buying another 400 dollar .45 for cheap ammo fun might be more attractive than buying a 5-800 dollar .44 that dosent do either quite as well/cheaply.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
My American Ranch .450, which is certainly an entry level rifle and exactly the kind we're talking about here, was $450. As I said, these guns have sold extremely well in straight-wall states. Hell, it was a high volume dealer in a straight-wall state that got them made in the first place. The cheapest .450 is going to be the Mossberg Patriot, which will still run $350 without catching a special sale. The sub-$300 guns are going to be high volume models in common bottlenecked chamberings. Which is off topic.
Certainly no $200-$250 guns as you originally mentioned.
A lightweight .44 would be much more pleasant to shoot, be more than enough for 150yds, more easily shot with subsonics and then there is that all-important use of carbide dies and a roll crimp. A .44 levergun is pleasant to shoot in volume. A 16" .450 with a muzzle brake, not so much.
The beautiful thing about .38 S&W, and to a slightly lesser degree .357, is the extremely low cost ammo. .38 is the cheapest centerfire ammo available, and out of a long barrel, even $.25/round LSWHP will expand to 50 yards or more. If someone is an actual shooter, a .357 carbine makes a lot of sense, especially if it could be chambered in a Ruger American for less than the cost of a decent upper.
illinoisburt
Member
I used a straightwall in Illinois for 12 seasons. It just came in a 7-1/2" barrel six shooter version
I totally agree, as a general fun shooting gun a .44 is much more pleasant, and plenty capable enough. It just seems to me that most folks would buy the bolt gun for low cost, and possibly more performance, and probably skip the .44 bolt and spend more on a lever gun for pretty much everything else.
Im finding 9mms on ammo seek for 20¢ a round, 38s for 40¢, .357s for 50¢, and .350 legends for 55¢
I was also looking at .44 specials, and mags (im envious of you guys that can mail order ammo). They are both about 48¢ at the cheapest.
.450 bushmaster is about a dollar a shot.
Locally i pay about 26¢ a round for 9mm, 1-1.50$ a round for .38s, bout 50-60¢ for .357, and 1-1.75$ for .44s.
.350 is about 60¢
Again this is just MY opinion. I feel like someone who isnt really INTO shooting, or maybe just wants to shoot, would be more inclined to go with the less versatile rifle round, or standard cheap pistol round, than a more versatile magnum pistol round, especially in a cheap bolt rifle.
And this isnt to say i dont really like the idea of a new Ruger American using a rotary mag (hopefully long enough to load heavies out a bit) and shooting magnum pistol rounds. Especially if they shortened the action to length more in line with the rounds.....they could also use the same action for the "mini" rounds like the .223 and Grendel!
Id actually be willing to pay a premium for a bolt gun .44 since i DO have a pair of .44s and load for them, and i like bolt guns more than levers.
Why not buy a .450? 'Cause thats not what I want lol
I WILL buy a 9mm bolt gun, or build one, in the near future.
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illinoisburt
Member
Yes, my point was they don't make straightwall single shots or bolt guns in that price range. If someone did, you would likely see the complete demise of shotguns for deer in many limited season states. Right now there are guns available for 2 to 3 times that price which would be legal for hunting, but only a fraction of the shotgunners are making the shift.
At least from what I've seen at some very busy gun ranges and public hunting areas in slug states, a large percentage of the hunters were using smoothbore Mavericks and Mossberg 500s. Some had rifled barrels, scopes, or more expensive guns, however it was definitely a minority. Most don't even have true iron sights. Going to a cantilever scoped rifled barrel can be a big boost in slug accuracy for not too much money, but obviously a good number of people don't see enough improvement to upgrade.
When states allow standard centerfire rifles almost no one uses shotgun slugs. Given a choice between inexpensive basic shotguns with slugs and moderately priced straightwall rifles, most hunters in limited states have been staying with their shotguns.
Welcome back from 1970.
38 Special hasn't been the least expensive centerfire ammo in a LONG time. 357? You're joking, right?
9mm is the least expensive and has been for a couple of decades.
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