need help with 124gr rmr matchwinner load data

Welcome to THR! There are several threads that answer the “I’m new to reloading...” question here on this forum.
In general:
- Read a reloading manual or primer
- Read it again
- Assemble your equipment
- Assemble your components ( looks like you’ve started this already)
- Choose your load data - best to use published load data to begin with
- Keep good notes!
My 9mm load data may not work for your particular gun(s). And pay very close attention to the COL, 9mm is a high pressure round and COL will affect that. Your chamber/barrel will dictate max and working COL. I shoot a lot of RMR MW, and my guns allow a generous COL. Good luck!

Fat Snax said:

I have an m&p pro, so I know that I can't load anything +p.

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Why? Are M&P Pros different than other M&P models?

Welcome Aboard !

• LordPax gave you some good advice. That last one will save your rear end. Get a personal notebook of some shape or description, ranging from 99 cent spiral bound school notebook to a classy 3-ring binder with index tabs,.... and take notes on everything you do. Best practice is to set aside a full page for each new-to-you bullet. In the heading record the brand and weight. Then below that record all the dimensions. Then below that the OAL you'll be using with that bullet in your barrel, then below that various loads that worked and didn't work. It will look something like this...



• You most definitely need a printed load manual. Allow me to recommend the Lyman #50 (hardbound) as the best overall manual with the best overall data. You can make notes in the margins, add Post-It notes and index tabs. Young people mistakenly believe the web is the ultimate information source, but that data gets changed all the time. Load data there one day disappears the next. When your data vanishes, what do you do ? You cannot base your load calculations on load data that disappears like smoke.

• Last big mistake I see new reloaders make is to assume that all 9mm guns are identical, and therefore a great load for your buddy's gun is going to work really well in yours. Nothing could be further from the truth. All gun makers cut their barrels and chambers differently. Ammo that shoots wonderfully in one brand gun, might allow your gun to fire Out Of Battery and seriously injure you. So take the time to discover how each new-to-you bullet will interface with your chamber. Each bullet will have a discrete (very individual) Max OAL in your barrel. So any ammo you make for your gun will need to be shorter than that dimension, so that the chamber can close, lock, and thus fire safely. The only assumption you should jump to is this: Some of the bullets offered for sale may not be be suitable for use in your gun.

Do you now see why you need a notebook ?!! What you previously saw as only "bright shiny things from WalMart" will soon be viewed as a manufactured marvel, tailored specifically to your gun, with 15 critical dimensions, and 20 precision process checks. IOW, you're about to earn a Bachelors Degree in ammo !!

Welcome & be safe.

Fat Snax said:

Does it matter if I use published data for JHP if I'm loading Matchwinners? It seems hard to find data for flat nosed rounds in FMJ, Everything seems to be in RN or JHP.

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First lesson: What you are doing is accelerating a Mass down a tight fitting barrel, so friction comes into play. Your main 2 concerns as a reloader are then: Bullet Weight and Material of the bullet which slides against the barrel. Seating depth is a concern, but without the length of the 2 bullets, this can be hard to judge. Therefore, focus on load info from same weight bullets with same external materials. All the other differences are accounted for by beginning at the Starting Load and working up in small increments.

So 'yes', load data for 124gr JHP can be used for the 124gr Matchwinner, but is not an exact 1:1 equivalent. Therefore you will need to load 6-8 cartridges at each load, beginning at the lowest load and working up in tiny increments.

Fat Snax said:

Is 124gr, 124gr and the only difference is COL? I know COL can effect pressure. I am currently at 1.065 -1.07 and everything passes plunk test.

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This sentence does not make sense. Reloading demands a level of precision, or you will get hurt. We're not baking cookies here; we're making explosive charges you'll be holding in your hand. If you are not OCD about details, then, starting today, you should get manically OCD about details.

This hobby is more akin to bungee jumping than baking in that mistakes have serious consequences. Not fussing, just saying.

Fat Snax said:

I am keeping notes on my phone, but paper would be easier to reference. I will copy my notes down.

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I refer daily to notes made over 20 years ago. Will you still have that same phone in 20 years ? Please understand, this is a lifetime hobby. You'll be referring to these same notes in 2040. The best load data you can get is the stuff you develop for yourself on your guns. So you need a paradigm shift from thinking "next week" to "next decade". Follow ?

Fat Snax said:

I've got Lyman 50th

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What took so long ??

While multiple books are nice, you must decide to have ONE main resource. There is only one queen. All other manuals serve the queen when data is missing or needs supplementing. Data books rarely agree. If you allow yourself to be ruled by multiple manuals, then you'll only end up with conflicting information and more questions than answers. IOW, "crazy". And crazy is not an enviable mental state for a reloader. Try not to go there.

Fat Snax said:

I've got Power Pistol and CFE.

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Power Pistol is going to be your best bet. I've never been impressed with CFE in target loads. CFE does better in full power loads, but you wanted to stay in mid-range.

I should probably be dead. Been shooting +P loads through three different M&P pros for years. Literally thousands of rounds. I'm assuming the only reason they recommend against using +p in the pro is because the sear is rounded and can slip if you get it worn (or you do a poor trigger job) I've done 9 trigger jobs on M&P pros and shields and had to buy a new sear on one of them because I went too far. Other than the sear and the trigger reset knobby thing, the M&P pro is pretty much identical to their other M&P line.

My main suggestion is find a load in your reloading manual before you buy any components (powder, primer, and bullets, load data). That way you won't have to go through the research, waiting process and when you get your components you can start assembling them right away . I just reloaded some of those bullets (FMJ FP) and used the data in my Hornady 10th for their FMJ FP, using starting loads of CFE Pistol powder for listed velocity of a bit over 1,000 fps, with plenty of room to increase charges.

FWIW; I suggest to new reloaders my Rule #1, I pay very little attention to any load data I see on any forum, or "pet loads" website, hear from any gun counter clerk, range rat, good intended friend, or gun shop guru. (data being powder charges. powder recommendations are welcome). I get 98% of my load data from published reloading manuals and a few from powder/bullet manufacturer's websites. In over 40 years of reloading this has worked quite well for me and I had one squib in 1970 and no kabooms reloading for 7 rifles and 13 handguns in 15 different calibers...

Go slow. Double check everything. Most important, have fun...

Fat Snax said:

I'm new to reloading and would like any advice on load data for rmr's 124gr matchwinners. I have power pistol and cfe powders on hand. I'm just looking for accurate plinking rounds. Any advice or input would be appreciated, thanks again.

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I do not use either of those powders nor have I used that particular bullet but I will reply with this.

The Berry's 124gr Flat Point is very similar in shape and are the same weight. Biggest difference is one is plated and one is jacketed. So they should load to the same general Over-all Length. Therefore if you can find a data listing for the Berry's bullet with either of those powders I personally would feel more than safe using that load data as a starting point. Keep in mind that shorter increases pressure and longer decreases pressure.

Then pick one powder and start working with that one. Try different power levels. First thing I do after finding a good reliable starting load is I then start trying different length, longer and shorter. starting with the longest one that will reliably plunk into and out of the barrel and then try shorter. You should see a difference in accuracy and maybe some in recoil. I usually see an improvement in accuracy and then it will fall off. That will help find a good working length.

As the others have suggested, go slow, keep a close watch, don't get distracted and when in doubt recheck do not assume anything.

Fat Snax said:

The S&W manual says you can't fire +p in m&p 9. So I am staying away from high pressure loads.

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I don't know what your M&P manual says, but the M&P manual downloaded from S&W's website does NOT say you can't fire +P ammo in an M&P.

It says, “Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety. Use of “Plus-P” ammunition may result in the need for more frequent service.

You can use +P ammo, it will produce more wear than standard pressure ammo.


The manual DOES say to not use +P+ ammo in the M&P.

“Plus-P-Plus” (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith & Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation does not represent defined pressure limits and therefore such ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated and could be DANGEROUS."

These are pretty common guidelines. +P is within SAAMI specs, so it is safe to use but the increased recoil will batter the gun a little harder. +P+ exceeds SAAMI specs and there is no way to know what the pressure is.

By the way, you're going to violate S&W's WARNING if you use reloads in your gun. On the same page as their +P and +P+ information, they say:

NEVER USE RELOADS OF ANY KIND

So, if you really want to go by the book . . .

Fat Snax said:

I sit corrected! This forum is awsome. I'm glad that I was wrong about the +p ammo and it is funny that the manual says don't use reloads.

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Probably every manual (for production guns, with some exceptions) says don't use reloads 'cause they can't control what we wacky handloaders do.

Maybe I missed it but were you after Full power loads, practice loads or something that makes 125 PF for matches.
Different RMR bullet but
String: 2
Date: 8/26/2018
Time: 11:33:39 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1040
Low Vel: 1013
Ave Vel: 1031
Ext Spread: 27
Std Dev: 10
4.7 CFE-P124 RMR MPR JHP 1.08
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1013 125.612 282.515
1040 128.96 297.776
1038 128.712 296.632
1033 128.092 293.781
1035 128.34 294.92

I was looking for a 125 PF load with the above.

Hodgdons data fro a 125 FMJ
125 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon CFE Pistol .355" 1.090" 4.6 1009 26,900 PSI 5.1 1118 33,000 PSI

Fat Snax said:

I will focus on Power Pistol for now

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Lot's of blast and flash for a 9mm powder. Not the softest shooting either. But it's clean, consistent and accurate.

For reference, Wilson Combat uses a load of 5.2g PP with a 125g HAP for their test targets. This load will commonly punch a one hole group @ 15 yds. and is fairly tame for Power Pistol.

Welcome to THR.

Fat Snax said:

I'm new to reloading ... just looking for accurate plinking rounds. Still working on my accuracy with factory loads and wanted to give reloading a try.

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Here's step-by-step guide you can reference to develop accurate loads along with shooting tips near the bottom of the post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11419509

Fat Snax said:

would like any advice on load data for rmr's 124gr matchwinners. I have power pistol and cfe powders on hand. I'm just looking for accurate plinking rounds.

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While Power Pistol and CFE Pistol can work to produce accurate loads, "relatively" slower burning powders tend to produce accuracy near max/max load data. While I needed to push CFE Pistol near max to optimize accuracy, Power Pistol is more flexible like BE-86/WSF and can produce accuracy down to mid-range load data.

Below is my "relative burn rate" groupings I use for my load development and for lighter target/plinking loads, faster burning powders in the range of Red Dot/Promo to W231/HP-38/Sport Pistol would be better suited. Many reloaders use Unique and slower burning powders for higher velocity full power loads - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/powder-shape-and-burn-rate.852012/


Faster burning pistol powders:

E3 - Competition - Nitro 100 - N310 - Norma R1

Red Dot/Promo - IMR Red - Clays - 700X - Bullseye - Vectan Ba 10 - IMR Target - TiteGroup - Vectan AS - Am. Select - Solo 1000 - WST - International - Trail Boss - N320 - Vectan Ba 9.5 - No. 2 - Clean Shot/Lovex D032.03

W231/HP-38 - Zip - Sport Pistol - Green Dot - IMR Green


Slower burning pistol powders:

Unique - Universal - W244 - IMR Unequal - Vectan Ba 9 - BE-86 - Power Pistol - N330 - Vectan A1 - Herco - Vectan A0 - WSF - N340 - 800X

No. 5 - Auto Pistol/Lovex D036-03 - True Blue - HS6 - AutoComp - Ultimate Pistol/Lovex D036-07 - CFE Pistol - Silhouette - 3N37

N350 - 3N38 - IMR Blue - W572 - Blue Dot - No. 7 - Major Pistol/Lovex D037-01 - Vectan Ba 7.5 - Pro Reach - Long Shot - 2400

Enforcer - No. 9 - Heavy Pistol/Lovex D037-02 - 4100 - Steel - Norma R123 - N110 - Lil'Gun - W296/H110 - 300-MP - 11FS - Vectan Ba 6.5 - H4227

Fat Snax said:

rmr's 124gr matchwinners. I have power pistol and cfe powders on hand.

Does it matter if I use published data for jhp if I'm loading matchwinners? It seems hard to find data for flat nosed rounds in fmj, everything seems to be in rn or jhp ... I know COL can effect pressure. I am currently at 1.065 -1.07 and everything passes plunk test.

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When I am using a bullet not listed on the published load data, I will often reference more conservative start/max charges for the "initial" powder work up as you can always go up. What's more important than OAL is the actual bullet seating depth which is determined by subtracting the bullet length from OAL used.

BTW, you can find most commonly used bullet lengths in this link (Select .355"/.356" for 9mm bullets) - http://www.shootforum.com/forum/bulletdb.html

9mmepiphany said:

I commonly use JHP data when loading the 124gr MatchWinners

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For your RMR 124 gr FMJ TCFP Match Winner load development, you could also reference FMJ RN load data but reduce the start/max charges to compensate for deeper seating depth. Even when using similar profile bullets (FMJ vs RN, JHP vs HP, etc.), if I am using significantly shorter OAL/deeper bullet seating depth than published load data, I will consider reducing my start/max charges by .2 - .3 gr.

Let's look at some published load data:

Here's Speer load data for TMJ (Total Metal Jacket which is thick plated RN that can be driven to jacketed velocities) and Gold Dot HP (Also thick plated HP) - https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.c...m_caliber_355-366_dia/9mm_Luger__124_rev1.pdf

• 9mm 124 gr Speer TMJ Power Pistol OAL 1.135" Start 5.6 gr (1033 fps) - Max 6.4 gr (1157 fps)
  
• 9mm 124 gr Speer GDHP Power Pistol OAL 1.120" Start 5.6 gr (1033 fps) - Max 6.4 gr (1157 fps)

Here's Hodgdon load data for BERB RNHB-TP (Berry's thick plated hollow base RN which can be driven to jacketed velocities), Sierra 125 gr FMJ (Since many jacketed bullet weights can vary by 1.0 gr, I interchange load data for 124/125 gr bullets) and 125 gr Hornady HAP (Same as XTP without the expansion cuts for better feeding for match shooting) - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

• 9mm 124 gr BERB HBRN-TP CFE Pistol COL 1.150" Start 4.9 gr (1,006 fps) - Max 5.5 gr (1,120 fps)
• 9mm 125 gr Sierra FMJ CFE Pistol COL 1.090" Start 4.6 gr (1,009 fps) - Max 5.1 gr (1,118 fps)
• 9mm 125 gr Hornady HAP CFE Pistol COL 1.069" Start 4.2 gr (956 fps) - Max 4.8 gr (1,096 fps)

Fat Snax said:

rmr's 124gr matchwinners ... I am currently at 1.065 -1.07 and everything passes plunk test.

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Let's start with CFE Pistol powder work up first.

Hornady HAP is essentially Flat Point profile with hollow point and is similar to RMR FP Match Winner bullet profile. Since you are using 1.070" OAL with similar bullet seating depth, referencing 124 gr Hornady HAP load data for your "initial" powder work up would be most conservative. And reducing 125 gr Sierra FMJ load data by .2 - .3 gr would essentially produce similar start/max charges of 4.3 gr to 4.8 gr. (I would disregard BERB 4.9 gr to 5.5 gr as OAL used is much longer at 1.150").

BTW, for 124 gr RN (Thick plated) loaded to 1.150", I used 5.2 gr of CFE Pistol - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-flash-of-these-powders.863932/#post-11398575

So for CFE Pistol loaded with RMR 124 gr FP MW at 1.070", I would suggest testing 4.4 gr, 4.6 gr and 4.8 gr.

And since CFE Pistol produces greater accuracy at higher charges, your accuracy may increase towards 4.8 gr.


As for Power Pistol, GDHP better reflects RMR FP MW profile but Speer load data uses longer 1.120" length which will result in shallower bullet seating depth. So for RMR FP MW loaded deeper at 1.070", I would reduce the start/max charges as well.

So for Power Pistol loaded with RMR 124 gr FP MW at 1.070", I would suggest testing 5.1, 5.3 and 5.5 gr.

And why stop at 5.5 gr? Because you are looking for plinking rounds (about 125-130 power factor around 1050 fps), not higher velocity full power loads.

I hope this helped.

Fat Snax said:

I sit corrected!

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Now who's the funny guy ?

You'll get along just fine here.

FWIW; when researching a load for the RMR bullets I measured the length and compared it to a Hornady HP of the same weight (and profile). The RMR FMJ FP was under .010" shorter for the two bullets I measured, so I could have used Hornady JHP OAL data. But Hornady makes a FMJ FP of the same weight and from the pics I could find, are very close to the RMR profile, so I used the Hornady data. But as always I started with min/starting loads...