All other factors excluded, is .380 ACP the best pocket semi auto caliber?

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TTv2

TTv2

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By factors I mean ammo and gun price and/or availability.

Like others, I've watched Lucky Gunner's mousegun series and while I concur .32 revolvers are superior, I'm still wondering what is best in terms of semi autos. .25 Auto I've determined is obsolescent and a product of low quality .22 ammo of the time, while .22 LR today is still problematic in micro pistols.

I think 5.45x18 is a really nifty cartridge that could find success here in the US for concealed carry, but nobody outside of Russia makes pistols or ammo for it, so it's really a non-starter.

So, that really leaves only calibers of .32 and larger meaning .32 ACP, .32 NAA, and .380 ACP. I would include 9x18, but that's basically the same power as .380, so we'll just call them even and leave it at .380.

From the limited amount of ballistic gel videos and velocities recorded by chronographs, the .32 NAA has really impressed me and if given the choice, I'd choose .32 NAA over .380 or .32 ACP.

However, .32 ACP is so low recoil that it's hard to turn my nose up to it. It's not going to be as good a performer as .380 or .32 NAA, but it's not nearly as weak as .22 or .25 is, so it's not the worst choice one can make.

What are others' thoughts?

EDIT: Please no discussion on 9mm.
 
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FL-NC said:
I think a small 9mm in a larger pocket is better than any of the rounds you referenced.
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Yeah, I'm trying to keep this in terms of Lucky Gunner's criteria. The largest caliber they tested was .380, so I'm keeping it to .380 max.

Also, I've yet to find a 9mm as small as any .380 or .32 micro pistol.
 
I have more faith that .380 ACP will penetrate a bone, compared to the pocket-pistol .32 cartridges. Compact 9mm pistols hurt* my aging, ailing right thumb/hand/wrist, whether my right hand is the weapon hand or the support hand, so, a locked-breech .380 ACP pistol that I can fire one-handed seems to be a reasonable candidate for a best compact auto-pistol, for my personal use case. I am presently vetting a Glock G42. (I do still use 9mm pistols, but duty-sized, with full-height grip frames, such as the G17 and G19x, not compacts.)

*It is not a matter of mere pain, but actual swelling, indicating that destructive things are happening.
 
I am a strong .380 fan. However, I think 32naa has a lot going for it other than the one obvious issue, availability. If there were barrels for popular 380 pistols, like the Glock 42 and the mustang derivatives, I would almost certainly get one.
 
I used to have 380 mouse guns but after a while found I had no use for them and could always at a minimum carry a single stack 9mm and 80% of time a Glock 19 sized pistol. Now my smallest is a Hellcat used for that 20%. I would never go below 32acp other than for plinking. From 32 to 380 since I don’t really like any for SD/HD I would simply care more which holds more rounds so probably like 32 better.
 
I have had a number of .32 ACP pistols over the years and while they were all well designed and built, the round itself never impressed me all that much. The .380 is to me a definite step up in performance and with the addition of a number of locked breech semi-autos, like the Colt Government .380, Colt Mustang, and SIG P238, have certainly made for a more user-friendly platform to use these guns in the pocket pistol role.

Yes they are single action designs which use a thumb safety but in all of the time I have carried these type of semi-autos I have yet to have the safety come off once it's been set. And the benefit of having a single action trigger is that it helps make for a higher degree of accuracy as compared to a number of other pocket autos with a heavy double action trigger. I think the combination of the locked breech design, single action trigger, and decent sights give you the best opportunity to maximize the potential of the .380 cartridge in a pocket semi-auto.
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The .32s are softer shooting, but other than that and maybe a slight increase in capacity I don’t see a lot of advantage. .380 wins that particular contest on just about every measure. Ammo choices, ammo availability, effectiveness, gun choices, etc..

That said....I’ve had both a p32 and a p3AT. So close to the same gun that they were hard to tell apart. For my particular needs, I found the p32 was actually noticeably easier to carry in some circumstances. An ounce or two can make a surprising difference in the pocket of dress slacks.

It’s nice to have choices.
 
For the most part, yes I think 380 is the most useful cartridge in the pocket carry package. It's not perfect, and it's not a one size fits all, do everything cartridge...but in terms of concealment vs shootability, vs effectiveness I think it comes out on top. General rule of thumb for concealed carry is to carry the largest gun, in the strongest caliber that you can. If I'm carrying in my pocket, 380 is the larget package, and therefore strongest caliber I can fit. If I try and cram a 9mm in my pocket, concealment becomes a problem...even with the new crop of micro 9s. No sense I can see going down to 32 or less to gain maybe a round or two in the mag. But 380 has limitations, shot placement, and therefore training becomes indispensable. Ammunition selection is also very important. I like the critical defense rounds, but others will tell you FMJ with a flat nose is the way to go. That's up to you, but learning how to put those rounds where you need them to go, under stress, is key
 
Hasaf said:
I am a strong .380 fan. However, I think 32naa has a lot going for it other than the one obvious issue, availability. If there were barrels for popular 380 pistols, like the Glock 42 and the mustang derivatives, I would almost certainly get one.
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The good thing is that because .32 NAA is just a necked down .380 all it takes to turn a .380 into .32 NAA is a barrel and maybe a stiffer recoil spring, thus with all the .380's out there there's at least something of a chance it could get people's attention and become more popular. All it takes apparently to get people interested in a dedicated self defense cartridge these days is if Federal makes an HST load for it, so if Ruger whipped up an LCP 2 in .32 NAA and Federal had an HST ammo for it, it would probably sell.

I honestly wouldn't have an issue reloading all the practice ammo for it either as .380 brass is easy enough to resize into .32 NAA.

The biggest reason I'd choose .32 NAA over .380 is the velocity is there to cause bullet expansion while with .380 it's not, at least not consistently.
 
748 said:
Yeah with 380 out of a pocket gun length barrel you can only really expect it to act like ball ammo.
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The LuckyGunner tests showed that there are a few JHP loads out there that will expand in .380, but they used a Glock 42 as the test gun, which has almost a half inch longer barrel than most pocket .380s. Not a huge amount longer, but still you're losing velocity with the shorter barrels, something .380 desperately needs.

Even when you do have the velocity to open up a hollow point the issue with .380 is that it's diameter to weight ratio is so poor the penetration is lacking. That's where .32 NAA comes into it's own: it has the velocity to open a bullet up, but it's using a bullet nearly as heavy as .380, but 1mm smaller in diameter and that results in a few extra inches of penetration.

All that becomes irrelevant tho if the solid bullets with the flutes cut in the nose work because they don't need velocity to work and don't have issues with hollow cavities being plugged with clothing. The question is are those bullets as effective as a .32 hollow point that opens up to .45 inches and goes 12 to 13 inches deep?
 
I have a cheap Diamondback in 9mm. It's lighter than any of my steel .380s and fits in the back pocket of my jeans with none of it showing. It's more accurate than I expected and doesn't kick bad with 90 gr. XTPs.
 
I recently wrote to Lone Wolf, asking for a 32naa barrel for the Glock 42. I doubt that I will see one, but it is worth asking.

Once my Form 1 is approved I will get one of their threaded barrels for my Glock 42.
 
Hasaf said:
I recently wrote to Lone Wolf, asking for a 32naa barrel for the Glock 42. I doubt that I will see one, but it is worth asking.

Once my Form 1 is approved I will get one of their threaded barrels for my Glock 42.
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I tweeted Diamondback because they made the .32 NAA barrels at one point to see if they'd ever make them again and the answer was they don't have plans to do that now, but doesn't mean they wouldn't in the future.

I still think Ruger is the key to getting .32 NAA more attention because there are so many LCP's out there and they have a close relationship with Federal ammo.
 
Speedo66 said:
Curious as to how many folks here considered .380 under powered for self defense until Keltec and Ruger came out with the P3AT and the LCP and people found out what a joy it was to carry them?
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It was underpowered - relative to what’s available in the same size guns. If the smallest you can get is an 8oz .380 and a 13oz 9mm, the .380 is underpowered in the “13 ounces and up” range, and is the top of the “less than 13oz” hill. If your carry requires a sub-13oz gun, the .380 is generally your best choice. Before the p3at your choices were generally more in the 16oz and up range for .380, and there are still 28oz .380s sold. They are underpowered compared to what you can carry that weighs that much.
 
I was talking in terms of the cartridge being under powered for self defense, period, regardless of pistol.

I think the ease of carrying those two pistols may have been a factor in changing people's minds.
 
TTv2 said:
I tweeted Diamondback because they made the .32 NAA barrels at one point to see if they'd ever make them again and the answer was they don't have plans to do that now, but doesn't mean they wouldn't in the future.

I still think Ruger is the key to getting .32 NAA more attention because there are so many LCP's out there and they have a close relationship with Federal ammo.
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It looks like Innovative Arms made a 32naa conversion barrel for the LCP at some point in the past. The website says that they are currently sold out. That's just as well, I don't need to go out and buy a new pistol just to have something to put the barrel into.

I would still rather have a 32naa for the Glock 42. First, I have a Glock 42. More importantly, the Glock 42 would provide a had inch longer barrel, allowing the bullet more time to get up to speed. It would be even better if the barrel were threaded, giving an additional quarter inch to that.
 
Speedo66 said:
I was talking in terms of the cartridge being under powered for self defense, period, regardless of pistol.

I think the ease of carrying those two pistols may have been a factor in changing people's minds.
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All common pistol calibers are underpowered for self defense, period, regardless of pistol. We make do because they are convenient, not because they are especially effective. We just do the best we can within the constraints we have.
 
Hasaf said:
I recently wrote to Lone Wolf, asking for a 32naa barrel for the Glock 42. I doubt that I will see one, but it is worth asking.

Once my Form 1 is approved I will get one of their threaded barrels for my Glock 42.
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Will it feed from a glock magazine.
I am not very sure as to where one can buy 32 naa. is the round similar ballistically to the 8mm nambu.
upload_2020-5-26_16-35-12.jpeg
102 gr (7 g) FMJ 290 m/s (950 ft/s) 274 J (202 ft⋅lbf)

32 NAA One load is said to be
71 gr (5 g) FMJ 1,000 ft/s (300 m/s) 158 ft⋅lbf (214 J)
upload_2020-5-26_16-37-55.jpeg
 
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