So any advantages of the a modern rifle in .45-70?

whm1974 said:

This is news to me as what wrong with a .44 Magnum lever action rifle instead? How powerful is a modern loading of .45-70 Government anyway?

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Way more powerful. Heavier bullets going faster at lower pressure. The 45-70 stomps a 44 mag.

You can go from 1300 ft lbs to Cape Buffalo killing power with factory loads. That is why they are so great.

If buying Marlin, get a real one.

buffalo bore +p+ .44
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=54
probably clocked from a handgun, id figgure a rifle would get 300 or so fps more maybe.

45-70
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=154


so if the .44 does get another 300-400ish fps, then its srill a touch slower than the .45-70.....and 260gr lighter

A .44 mag from a rifle will push a 300gr bullet around 1400fps. The 45-70 in a Marlin will push a 300gr to 2300fps. In a Ruger #1 the 45 70 can go even harder.

So, they are not very close at all. Not that the .44 is a wimp but it is a pistol round.

Also, 45 70 can also go much heavier which is good at times.

I owned at least one Marlin 45-70 from 1976 until about 10 years ago. Had 3 of them all together. Itis one of the more over rated cartridges out there. With traditional black powder level loads it offers nothing over 44 mag. Those loads pretty much match 45 caliber muzzle loader performance. Which is the legal minimum for deer in most states. And does not meet the legal requirement for game bigger than deer in most states. Most people would be a lot better off with a 44 mag.

One commonly repeated myth is that 45-70 was a popular buffalo rifle. Most of the buffalo were dead long before the 45-70 was introduced in 1873 and laws were passed in 1874 banning buffalo hunting to preserve the ones left.

There are 3 levels of 45-70 loads.

lightest loads basically match black powder performance and are safe in most rifles.

The lever action loads which take things up a notch pushing a 400 gr bullet to about 1900 fps

Then the modern loads intended for strong single shots or bolt guns. You can shoot a 400 gr bullet to about 2100 fps, about the same speed a 458 shoots 500 gr bullets.

On paper that looks good, but in the real world even the hottest 45-70 loads are marginal on truly big game. I watched Tony Makris on an episode of "Under Wild Skies" take a buffalo with a Marlin 45-70. 1st shot was at 65 yards. I lost count but the animal finally went down after 6 or 7 shots and who knows how long. They kept cutting away between shots to track the animal.

There is literally nothing I'd hunt with a 45-70 where I'd not prefer to have a 30-06 loaded with 200-220 gr bullets in my hand. And I'd feel even better on the really big stuff with a 375 or 458.

Yeah. They suck. That is why guides in Alaska carry them.

I can tell you that .44 mag loads from a rifle give very moderate recoil. A full house, stomper .45-70 will rock your world.

If you could shoot the two side by side, it would explain it far quicker than reading a blog

The 45-70 and other cartridges like it put killing a deer down where you can afford it. With say 3031 powder you can get 200 loads out of a pound of powder, that and a single primer, and a case you can use indefinitely, will put you in business. When that case finally splits, I trim it a little and size it down to 40-65, When the 40-65 starts to go, I take it down to 38-56, and on down to 33 WCF.

For a bullet, if you have a wheel weight tool, you can just pop them off somebody's wheel who you wouldn't mind seeing wobbling down the road. Lubricant can be a mixture of automotive grease and beeswax. Unlike some of the new high velocity numbers, you can eat right up to the hole.

When my nephew started hunting, I handed him a 45-70, a few cartridges, and said, "Boy, you miss, you don't come back and ask what's for supper." Recoil? That would have likely intimidated him, if I had told him what it was.

I will never own one. People have different tastes but if I would need a rifle that big (I never will) I suspect I would be looking at a H&H

Garrett loads a 540gr at 1550 45-70 load.

The 44mag is nowhere close to that.

These loads have been around for over a decade too

45/70 with handloads far surpasses 44 mag and 444 marlin. It can fire anything from a 140 gr collar button to a 535 gr elephant stompers. The only thing that will limit you is how much recoil you handle

Some guys simply don't get it, no problem for me. If you don't like 45-70 you're either loading it wrong or shooting it wrong, can't think of anything to dislike about it. Treat it like a large handgun cartridge and not a 30 cal rifle. No one calls 454 casull weak, 45-70 exceeds its performance easily and at much much lower pressure. What's not to love?

The only handgun cartridges that - when fired from a rifle - start to overlap with .45/70 are the big magnums. By big I mean .454 casull and up, and by overlap I mean the .454 casull from a 16” barrel can cross into the .45/70 trapdoor range (which are the weakest class of .45/70). The .44 magnum doesn’t come close.

Now, do you need to go past .44 mag? That’s more a philosophy question. There are plenty of people who argue passionately that you don’t need to go past whatever they have. For others, they want more more more - at least until they try it, then “hand loading is great I can run my super super magnum with whatever load I want (and I want a load that doesn’t break my shoulder)”.

The .45/70 is a great cartridge to reload: data is everywhere for bullets ranging from about 250 to around 550 grains, the process is a snap and most loads are surprisingly effective on the target yet are still pleasant to shoot.

The .44 mag and .45/70 cartridges only overlap at the far lower end of the .45/70 power-spectrum in rifles.

As to is thd .45/70 overrated? Is there any popular cartridge that isn’t overlapped by something older at least once in either direction? IMHO every popular modern cartridge introduced in the last 60-odd years is overrated. All have their fanbois and all could be replaced with another cartridge that was introduced decades earlier that performs the same or better.

But variety is the spice of life, so they makers and ad men keep them coming. Nothing wrong with that .

If you’re in the market for a rifle for short/medium range big game, the .45/70 is certainly a 145+ year old option.

Stay safe.

whm1974 said:

Well as there are no Bears, Elk, or Moose in the State of Illinois, I don't see how I could benefir for a .45-70 rifle period... Come to think of it, you can't even hunt with centerfire rifle in most areas in the State anyway.

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Probably not worth it for you unless you WANT one.

Ive finally decided ive got no real desire for a .45-70......Im going to a .458 Win Mag.
I would, given a low enough price point, buy either a .45-70 or .44 lever gun just to have. Neither would really have a practical reason, and its not it like 85%(i actually did the math) of my firearms arnt the same way lol.

No, not the dark. I have one of these:

https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1895-big-bore/model-1895cb

And an original, ported one of these:

https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1895-big-bore/model-1895g

I've had the Guide Gun since the mid-1990's, it's a real fun gun and very accurate.

Stay safe.

The 45-70 will be around for as long as the eagle flies, the river flows and the grass grows.

Steve S. said:

The 45-70 will be around for as long as the eagle flies, the river flows and the grass grows.

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I thought it already has been...

Stay safe.

45-70 vs 44 Magnum is just a silly comparison. The debate you want to have is 44 Mag vs 444 Marlin. The Marlin wins, but at least it's apples and really effing powerful apples. 44 Mag vs 45-70 is apples vs man-portable artillery.