5.56x45mm NATO reload shoulder crushing

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J Wedeking

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I ran into a problem with some reloads I churned out during the COVID shutdown that are having some issues. When I went out to the shooting range some of the rounds are having their shoulder crushed/smashed when cycling causing a pretty bad jam not letting the round actually chamber. The first thought I have is that the gouging is from the rifling and the round is not being fully chambered forward causing the carrier to crush the brass however my overall round length is per the load spec.

Here's my load data: 55gr Hornady FMY-BT with cannelure, 21.7gr Accurate 2200, 2.2" COAL. All brass had been cleaned, fully resized, trimmed, cleaned again before loading.

It seems that the jammed rounds have some gouging on the bullet head. I've only reloading for about 5 years and this is the first time using Hornady FMJ, I've usually only reloaded solid copper projectiles with no problems at all. I tested the rounds in 3 firearms to make sure a Larue 5.56, S&W 5.56 and also a DPMS with the same jamming problems. Please see attached images and thank you in advance for your comments.
20200527_115922.jpg
20200527_142530.jpg
 
Are the photos of the bad rounds after trying to chamber or are they like that before loading them into a rifle?

The reason I ask is that I have used plenty of Hornady 55Gr FMJ bullets with a mixture of 223 and 5.56 brass from multiple manufacturers and have never had a problem like that. If they are like that before being loaded in a rifle, I would look to make sure you do not have a die that is set too deep in the press. If it is happening when the round is chambered in the rifle then I have no clue without seeing the rifle. It almost sounds like weak/soft brass if it happens only when you chamber a round.
 
12Bravo20 said:
Are the photos of the bad rounds after trying to chamber or are they like that before loading them into a rifle?

The reason I ask is that I have used plenty of Hornady 55Gr FMJ bullets with a mixture of 223 and 5.56 brass from multiple manufacturers and have never had a problem like that. If they are like that before being loaded in a rifle, I would look to make sure you do not have a die that is set too deep in the press. If it is happening when the round is chambered in the rifle then I have no clue without seeing the rifle. It almost sounds like weak/soft brass if it happens only when you chamber a round.
Click to expand...

These rounds shown in the photos are from chambering. Sometimes I can load a magazine and shoot 10 good rounds, and then the 11th jams. Even when reloading (Dillon progressive) I usually do a spot check on the 1st hundred rounds for overall length then after the 1st hundred I will check every about every 40th. And since I have tried the rounds in 3 different firearms, two of which are clean, I don't think it's the rifle. Attached is the gouging in the bullet head. As far as crimping goes I have been crimping these a little tighter since they are cannelured. 20200527_145906.jpg
 
Try backing off the crimp a little bit and see if the problem goes away. Measure the neck before and after you crimp to see how much of a difference there is.
 
J Wedeking said:
These are rounds that are being crushed while operating the firearm, not while reloading.
Click to expand...
Id say your overcrimping is causing the problem and chambering is making it worse.

Try trimming brass to minimum, and seat the bullet without a crimp.
 
Bwana John said:
Id say your overcrimping is causing the problem and chambering is making it worse.

Try trimming brass to minimum, and seat the bullet without a crimp.
Click to expand...

For my own knowledge, how will crimping/overcrimping cause this? If im sitting at 2.2 to 2.210 COAL how would this make the firearm essentially accordion the brass when loading? Also I do use a separate seat and crimping station.
 
I'm not saying that over crimping is your problem. I have seen where over crimping can cause feeding problems. An over crimp can actually cause the case to bulge right below the bullet/crimp. This was with straight wall pistol ammo, it could happen with bottle neck cases too. Over crimping and the use of crimping dies has been discussed in the thread about the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

Try a lighter crimp or no crimp at all. Also check your magazines as suggested.
 
J Wedeking said:
For my own knowledge, how will crimping/overcrimping cause this? If im sitting at 2.2 to 2.210 COAL how would this make the firearm essentially accordion the brass when loading? Also I do use a separate seat and crimping station.
Click to expand...
Entire case is being squished by overcrimping.
Squished case not chambering, squishing case even worse.

Trim to minimum case lenght, then seat bullet without crimping and I would bet problem goes away
 
If you don't have one, get a Sheridan slotted case gauge. https://sheridanengineering.com

It looks like you have too much crimp, but the gauge will tell the story. The gauge will also tell if there are problems with you sized brass. Sheridan gauges are made with tighter tolerances than other manufacturers, if your ammo passes with the Sheridan it should function in any gun. The slotted feature lets you see where the problem is.

When I load .223, I set the crimp die to barely touch the brass, basically straightening the case mouth without crimping.
 
Are you trimming your brass? Do you have a case gauge to check the round with?

Like I said earlier the marks on the bullet is from the feed ramp. Like others have said you normally see this type of thing when crimping. The body of the die is turned down too far, the bullet and neck get pinched, crushing the shoulder.
 
Jesse Heywood said:
If you don't have one, get a Sheridan slotted case gauge. https://sheridanengineering.com

It looks like you have too much crimp, but the gauge will tell the story. The gauge will also tell if there are problems with you sized brass. Sheridan gauges are made with tighter tolerances than other manufacturers, if your ammo passes with the Sheridan it should function in any gun. The slotted feature lets you see where the problem is.

When I load .223, I set the crimp die to barely touch the brass, basically straightening the case mouth without crimping.
Click to expand...


Ok purchased, thanks for the recommendation. The reason I put a little tighter crimp is because of the cannelure and also in the past when loading solid copper projectiles I had some of the bullet heads actually fall into the case during storage (in a 2 gallon bucket). When the case gauge arrives Ill go through the ammo and toss the undesirables.
 
J Wedeking said:
Ok purchased, thanks for the recommendation. The reason I put a little tighter crimp is because of the cannelure and also in the past when loading solid copper projectiles I had some of the bullet heads actually fall into the case during storage (in a 2 gallon bucket). When the case gauge arrives Ill go through the ammo and toss the undesirables.
Click to expand...

You are on the right track with using a gage. I would still double check your press setup to make sure something did not move/change. I also suggest a lighter crimp or no crimp.

I forgot to ask which crimp die are you using? I do know that with the Lee collet crimp die, that you have to screw it in deeper into the press to get a tighter crimp which could very well crush the neck. It might not be noticeable with a visual check but still be enough to cause feeding issues.

While I do use the Lee collet crimp die, I use a light crimp. I have used plenty of the Hornady 55Gr FMJ bullets without problems. Is the crimp needed? Probably not but I still do it with anything with a cannelure groove.
 
J Wedeking said:
The reason I put a little tighter crimp is because of the cannelure and also in the past when loading solid copper projectiles I had some of the bullet heads actually fall into the case during storage (in a 2 gallon bucket)..
Click to expand...

If the bullets are falling into the case, you do not have enough neck tension. You may need to reduce the size of your expander button a little. The expander button should be about 0.002" smaller in diameter than the bullet. But solid copper bullets may need a different interference fit than jacketed lead bullets to get an appropriate neck tension.
 
cfullgraf said:
If the bullets are falling into the case, you do not have enough neck tension. You may need to reduce the size of your expander button a little. The expander button should be about 0.002" smaller in diameter than the bullet. But solid copper bullets may need a different interference fit than jacketed lead bullets to get an appropriate neck tension.
Click to expand...
Yes, I can custom order an undersized mandrel from LEE like I did for my 300 win mag die. However I would say I had about five .224 bullet heads fall into the case for every 500 or so I loaded so I think the next round of 5.56's I kick out i will just put an extremely light crimp if any at all.
 
12Bravo20 said:
You are on the right track with using a gage. I would still double check your press setup to make sure something did not move/change. I also suggest a lighter crimp or no crimp.

I forgot to ask which crimp die are you using? I do know that with the Lee collet crimp die, that you have to screw it in deeper into the press to get a tighter crimp which could very well crush the neck. It might not be noticeable with a visual check but still be enough to cause feeding issues.

While I do use the Lee collet crimp die, I use a light crimp. I have used plenty of the Hornady 55Gr FMJ bullets without problems. Is the crimp needed? Probably not but I still do it with anything with a cannelure groove.
Click to expand...
I'm using the LEE factory crimp die.
 
cfullgraf said:
If the bullets are falling into the case, you do not have enough neck tension. You may need to reduce the size of your expander button a little. The expander button should be about 0.002" smaller in diameter than the bullet. But solid copper bullets may need a different interference fit than jacketed lead bullets to get an appropriate neck tension.
Click to expand...

For AR's I prefer 0.003"-0.004" fit difference. With these I do not have to crimp. Any thing less than 0.0025" you may run in to problem, Particularly with mixed brass.
 
Are you trimming your brass to the exact same (less than maximum) length everytime before reloading?I
 
J Wedeking said:
These rounds shown in the photos are from chambering. Sometimes I can load a magazine and shoot 10 good rounds, and then the 11th jams. Even when reloading (Dillon progressive) I usually do a spot check on the 1st hundred rounds for overall length then after the 1st hundred I will check every about every 40th. And since I have tried the rounds in 3 different firearms, two of which are clean, I don't think it's the rifle. Attached is the gouging in the bullet head. As far as crimping goes I have been crimping these a little tighter since they are cannelured.View attachment 919591
Click to expand...
I had the exact same problem that ended up being the magazine. Apparently the nose of the round, when sitting in the mag, was a little too low and was missing the feed ramp, was being jammed into the front wall of the magwell enough to spread the brass at the shoulder. Took me a while to figure out what was going on. Did it in 3 different guns. Jammed up one so tight that I had to hammer out the round with a long rod. The mag in question was a D&H. Since I quit using those, and used Magpuls instead, I've never had the problem again.
 
J Wedeking said:
I'm using the LEE factory crimp die.
Click to expand...

The key to crimping is ensuring all of your brass is the same length for consistency. I use Lee collet dies to crimp everything I load and the ammo works but you won’t ever have it set correctly until, as others mentioned, you trim your brass.

I crimp as a separate stage and reset my die for each batch. Keeping consistent with the amount of crimp means knowing that after die contact you are rotating the same amount each time (1/4 or 1/2 turn for example).

Progressive presses can really crank out rounds quickly but if you want good ammo brass prep and die set up are always key.


852C06E2-6AB5-4348-8110-24E7396F9072.png

Sorted and marked for storage.
FC9D362C-8CA1-4841-8AFE-4C9C752C1A37.jpeg
 
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