Biodegradable shotgun shells
- Thread starter GreenWing
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I remember the old all plastic Activ shotgun shells. Sometimes the plastic rim would get ripped off depending on the shotgun. I know that my old Marlin bolt action20 gauge goose gun did not like the Activ shells. It would rip the rim. I would rather not go backwards to paper hulls and wads.
WestKentucky
Member
I thought that the budget hundred packs were biodegradable already. Steel case heads rust away to nothing and the plastic hulls rot away slowly. Steel head paper case with cardboard wads does sound interesting. Should be California legal at least, but there’s still the issue of using lead.
Cvans
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I would think that paper shells and wads permeated with something like vegetable oil would be water resistant and still biodegradable. What did they use in the old days to make the paper water resistant. Heck I'd use them but I'm not a duck hunter and my ammo doesn't get wet.
I remember having the old paper shells, I think they may have been treated with wax or something similar. I just know they didn't hold up well bouncing around in my pockets when I was a kid walking around the woods small game hunting. Aftetlr a while, the paper would kind of fray, or swell...either way they had a habit of jamming up my old Steven's 16 gauge. Of course that was 30 years ago, and those shells were old back then. But I'd hate to see those come back, there's certainly biodegradable polymers....if I'm not mistaken, there's one that's made by nitrating cellulose
Jim Watson
Member
Although I mostly shot readily reloadable plastic shells at Trap, I would occasionally splurge on some paper Federals. Only good for 3 or 4 loads but the smell of hot wax was just right. Kind of like coal smoke from a steam engine.
Biodegradable shells and wads are advertised with no real details.
Biodegradable shells and wads are advertised with no real details.
Speedo66
Member
I remember sometimes the paper shells would swell depending on moisture, age, etc., and create problems in pumps and semi's.
Because they're so colorful, shotgun shell discards are obvious when out in the field. Be nice if they did disappear eventually.
Because they're so colorful, shotgun shell discards are obvious when out in the field. Be nice if they did disappear eventually.
RIO ECO BlueSteel
http://www.rioammo.com/en/rio_ammunition/new_rio_products#
http://www.rioammo.com/en/rio_ammunition/new_rio_products#
Sorry guess I should have been more specific. These are waterfowl loads so there is no lead and the shell is still plastic, only the wad is biodegradable. But you can pick up the spent case whereas the was ends up in a lake, river or inlet. I just don't want to add more plastic to the ocean bc I hunt a lot of coastal areas.
lemaymiami
Member
I know that ammo makers, like any other manufacturer, have to add new features or new products to catch buyer's imagination.... and I'm fine with it.
For me, though, I want reliable shotgun rounds that are long lasting, need little attention but will absolutely perform properly on that one moment when it's all on the line... As you can guess, other than when I was a kid - the only hunting I've ever done was for two-legged animals.... Eco what?
For me, though, I want reliable shotgun rounds that are long lasting, need little attention but will absolutely perform properly on that one moment when it's all on the line... As you can guess, other than when I was a kid - the only hunting I've ever done was for two-legged animals.... Eco what?
I'm for it. I frequent open space on public land where people shoot clays. It's not one managed range, but people just shoot wherever there's a hill or canyon to throw clays off and where they're distant enough and screened from any houses. I see waste from shells, clays and wads. The clays are just clay, so they eventually break down despite being the most visible waste because of their orange paint. The brass and polyethylene shells don't break down for a very long time, but at least some portion of the shooters have the courtesy to pick them up. It's not practical to pick up the wads. The felt wads from long ago would break down, but the LDPE wads that are almost universally used today will stick around for decades.
I'm not really concerned about self-defense or big game, buckshot and slug loads with non-biodegradable components. It's the cheap stuff that people shoot in high volume. I have it myself. I bought a few hundred rounds and then some when ammo was very cheap (Federal and Winchester 20ga, $4.69 for box of 25, local so no shipping) for when my boys are interested in shooting shotgun, probably next year. We might shoot it at a managed range (a Trap and Sporting Clays range where all the 4H kids go for shotgun), but we'll probably shoot some of it in the canyons. We'll pick up our shells, but the wads will be out there, and the lead. If Olin and Vista made cartridges with felt and steel without a premium price, I would shoot those for sure. It's not like I need high performance for a clay disc. Yeah I know the steel will scrape the barrel and scour the choke without a cup. I can't expect cheap bismuth and I don't have a solution to all the problems. I don't blame other people for what they do. I just hope we can find a better way for everyone.
I'm not really concerned about self-defense or big game, buckshot and slug loads with non-biodegradable components. It's the cheap stuff that people shoot in high volume. I have it myself. I bought a few hundred rounds and then some when ammo was very cheap (Federal and Winchester 20ga, $4.69 for box of 25, local so no shipping) for when my boys are interested in shooting shotgun, probably next year. We might shoot it at a managed range (a Trap and Sporting Clays range where all the 4H kids go for shotgun), but we'll probably shoot some of it in the canyons. We'll pick up our shells, but the wads will be out there, and the lead. If Olin and Vista made cartridges with felt and steel without a premium price, I would shoot those for sure. It's not like I need high performance for a clay disc. Yeah I know the steel will scrape the barrel and scour the choke without a cup. I can't expect cheap bismuth and I don't have a solution to all the problems. I don't blame other people for what they do. I just hope we can find a better way for everyone.
I used to reload my own shotgun shells. If I did that again (presently I don't have the equipment), I would use felt wads. Since I pick up my shells to reload them, I'm less concerned about those but I like the all-brass shells because they look cool. I use only steel shot to shoot birds just because I don't like eating lead. I could afford bismuth of hevi/tungsten for game loads, but steel works fine. I'm not shooting turkeys.
1KPerDay
Member
Yeah, as in a few centuries.
lemaymiami
Member
There’s something’s not generally known about plastics in all their diversity. What we all “knew” was that plastic items lasted a long time and as a result were always a serious problem in the environment when discarded...
That’s not exactly true since these days any plastic can be designed from the beginning to have an expiration date. It can be designed to last a long time or to literally fall apart in 10, 5, or less years from the date of manufacture.
That demise is done by simply adding a given amount of talcum when the plastic is heat formed...
What was common knowledge when I was a young man is no longer true. That might one of the reasons why re-cycling an old plastic container might not be such a good idea...
Yes, our environment is important but we need to keep a close eye on just what kinds of pollution are very serious and which might be much less of a problem than we’ve always thought...
Plastics of any kind in our waters... now that’s a real problem.
That’s not exactly true since these days any plastic can be designed from the beginning to have an expiration date. It can be designed to last a long time or to literally fall apart in 10, 5, or less years from the date of manufacture.
That demise is done by simply adding a given amount of talcum when the plastic is heat formed...
What was common knowledge when I was a young man is no longer true. That might one of the reasons why re-cycling an old plastic container might not be such a good idea...
Yes, our environment is important but we need to keep a close eye on just what kinds of pollution are very serious and which might be much less of a problem than we’ve always thought...
Plastics of any kind in our waters... now that’s a real problem.
So where do you get brass shot shells at? I never seen them anywhere, but I never used or owned a shotgun before...
Jim Watson
Member
Standard clay pigeons are made out of coal tar pitch and ground limestone, no clay involved. Boxes are labeled Toxic to swine, do not throw where pigs feed.
Our field is pretty much paved with fragments, paint on the old ones very faded.
There are allegedly biodegradable targets, "95% gone in two years."
That's good to know. Clay is just a generic term and limestone can form clay. Around here all I ever see are White Flyer Bio. That's what Walmart sells and I never see any other type. According to the maker's FAQ:
Q: Can you please tell me the composition of the White Flyer Biodegradable Target?
A: The target is comprised of several ingredients: the two major are limestone and sulfur. Over time, the limestone will condition the soil and the sulfur is broken down by microbes in the soil into a sulfate. This sulfate is a plant nutrient and is essential for many plant’s growth. The biodegradation of sulfur is well documented in literature as extremely large volumes of sulfur are spread on US soils yearly as a plant nutrient and soil conditioner. The other components in the target are all minor in concentration and aid in the degradation of the target such as lignin, a sugar found in trees. As stated on the box, if you throw a large number of targets in a concentrated area we recommend spreading limestone in the area to prevent the Ph from dropping due to the high concentration of sulfate or removing the targets from the area.
Brass shotshells made by Magtech are sold by reloading suppliers. I know Midway lists them, probably also Midsouth, Grafs, Brownells etc.
Q: Can you please tell me the composition of the White Flyer Biodegradable Target?
A: The target is comprised of several ingredients: the two major are limestone and sulfur. Over time, the limestone will condition the soil and the sulfur is broken down by microbes in the soil into a sulfate. This sulfate is a plant nutrient and is essential for many plant’s growth. The biodegradation of sulfur is well documented in literature as extremely large volumes of sulfur are spread on US soils yearly as a plant nutrient and soil conditioner. The other components in the target are all minor in concentration and aid in the degradation of the target such as lignin, a sugar found in trees. As stated on the box, if you throw a large number of targets in a concentrated area we recommend spreading limestone in the area to prevent the Ph from dropping due to the high concentration of sulfate or removing the targets from the area.
Brass shotshells made by Magtech are sold by reloading suppliers. I know Midway lists them, probably also Midsouth, Grafs, Brownells etc.
Ask anyone who's trying to make U.V. resistant plastics, and they will tell you all shotshells (all plastics) are biodegradable. That said, I would pay mroe for wads/hulls that don't litter. People recently have discovered "biodegradable" is itself a scam, if you want ecological neutrality, you need "compostable". Going back to cardboard would be a good start.
Insignificant bill
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I'm all for it.
I may be wrong but the way I understand it for something to be "biodegradable" it means it can be broken down by living organisms and return to the environment in a natural fashion. Although I agree that normal plastic hulls will break down over time and exposure to the sun and other elements it cannot be digested by living organisms. That being said I don't know if vegetable based plastic is actually any better or if that is also a scam. But I am way more concerned about the wads which are almost impossible to retrieve in a duck hunting environment. Biodegradable hulls that actually function correctly would be awesome though.
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