illinoisburt
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I've witnessed failures of 50 grain frangibles on a deer cull, but that was a dumb police decision to use it against the advice of all the hunters involved. 62 grain and heavier softpoints seems to be just fine.
Do you like 223/556 ?
- Thread starter Hog huntin Harry
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Legionnaire
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A .223 can certainly take whitetail with a well-placed shot, and I won't judge anyone who chooses to use one--unless that individual starts talking about wounded and unrecovered deer. While a .22-250 would be better, I personally won't hunt whitetail with anything less than a 6mm/.243. Too much room for error with a .223 in my opinion.
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Growing up we shot a lot of axis deer, of which most were 100lbs+/-, so smaller than the average whitetail i think.
I shot a .223 bolt gun pretty often, a friend shot a mini, and another friend shot an Colt carbine (dont know the model, but it was short).
Ive seen more screw ups with bigger guns than with the .223, and the only animals IVE lost have all been hit with bigger guns.
I have no issue with folks using anything they are comfortable with, as long as its not pure bravado, but i also generally suggest a heavier round.
entropy
Member
More of a testament to his own lack of skill to make a shot, and lack of wisdom to not take a shot.
And indeed it isn't. My son has taken many deer with .223 from 10 to 225 yards, with varmint bullets (55 gr. A-Max) with none of them going more than 50 yards. I wouldn't shoot as far as he has, but I have no doubt of my ability given a good shot within 150 yards.
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Becoming my favorite range cartridge, I fire more .223 rounds than all other centerfires combined. Of the the three .223 rifles I own; two are Rem 700s and one of those is a Stainless Light Varmint. The other is a "Plain Jane" ADL that I bought just because new at a bargain price and, after bedding, it's become a really great-shooter. The third is a Tikka and it's kinda heavy for carrying long distances, but very accurate. I've recently loaned it to my son as a standby varmint rifle because it has a removable magazine that can load the rifle quickly when a coyote or other pest comes by his home office. We live in the country, so we can shoot just stepping out the door.
ECVMatt
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A sleeper bullet in the .223 is the 70 grn Speer Semi-Spitzer SP. As our use of the .223 evolved on the ranch and we began to reload, we found this bullet on a whim and experimented with it quite extensively. It works very well on TX whitetails and hogs. We tended to rotate it in seasonally as we adjusted to bigger critters. It makes a great all-around "Ranch Load", but we still stuck to the 55 grn bullets for the vast majority of our shooting. I am not saying it would be my first choice for Elk, but it will secure large sums of guilt-free venison and pork when used appropriately.
The 70gr speer semi spitzers turned my buddies mini-14 from a scatter gun into a pretty decent mid range rifle. It shoot 1.5-2" with the 70gr speers, and scattered most everything else. My 1-12 Twist ADL shot them ok, but I mostly used 52gr american eagle HPs. 5 bucks a box, and lethal enough for me.
The 64gr pp, 65gr sierra game king, 70gr speer semi, and other heavy bullets give the .223 a decided increase in penetration over the true "varmint" bullets, without going all the way to the monometals.
mustanger98
Member
Do you know the twist on that Mini-14? I recall one a long time ago that was a 1:9... gun shop counter guy laughed and insisted that Hornady 68grBTHP's would keyhole at 25yds. I tore up a business card at 50yds with it. Same load in a 1:12 crankbolt did keyhole all over the place... looked like a spread of buckshot, except for the football shape holes.
it was an older 1-7. We didnt try any of the longer bullets besides the speers, simply because those were cheap, and shot well.
Do you find much difference in POI at 100 yards with the 70 grain load vs a normal 55 grain, etc. loads in your rifles? I float all my rifle barrels and difference in POI varies more than with bedded/pressure-pointed barrels. Also, those variations tend to be greater with larger/stronger cartridge firing rifles (with floated barrels).
The greatest variation I've encountered was in a floated 30-06 when shooting regular hunting loads and trying saboted 55 grain bullet factory loads. As I remember, the vertical difference was about 7 inches at 100 yards.
What difference in POI at 100 yards between the 70 and, say 55 grain POIs?
CleanDean
Member
I have been dismissed and discounted ...nearly disparaged when discribing my Mini Ranch Rifle , having a 1 in 10 " twist.
A 187 series built in 1985... Mini 14 Ranch Rifle. According to Ruger & Sunflower Outdoors data base. Ranch Rifles 18 " Bbl. were different in the good old days. ( ☆ To the dismay of heavy bullet lovers, like me☆)
A 187 series built in 1985... Mini 14 Ranch Rifle. According to Ruger & Sunflower Outdoors data base. Ranch Rifles 18 " Bbl. were different in the good old days. ( ☆ To the dismay of heavy bullet lovers, like me☆)
ECVMatt
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Good Morning Picher,
I honestly don't remember how much of a shift there was between the two loads, but we alway re-sighted our rifles. We spent most days feeding cattle and shooting against each other on smaller ranch targets that were in abundance near the ponds and creeks, so missing was not a good thing.
I am heading up to my desert house this weekend. That is where I store that rifle. I have a bunch of the 70 grainers loaded up, so if a get the chance I will shoot some groups. It is supposed to be windy, so not sure if it will be conducive to accurate shooting.
I honestly don't remember how much of a shift there was between the two loads, but we alway re-sighted our rifles. We spent most days feeding cattle and shooting against each other on smaller ranch targets that were in abundance near the ponds and creeks, so missing was not a good thing.
I am heading up to my desert house this weekend. That is where I store that rifle. I have a bunch of the 70 grainers loaded up, so if a get the chance I will shoot some groups. It is supposed to be windy, so not sure if it will be conducive to accurate shooting.
horsemen61
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I just got my new model 12 savage vlp in!
Apparently, the difference was sufficient to cause a change in zero. That's what was wondering.
FYI: The biggest change I've found between loads is when I used some 55 grain factory Accelerator sabot loads after previously sighting-in with 125 or 150 grain deer-hunting ammo. The Accelerators were about 8" lower than the regular ammo and had little recoil. I never finished the 20 round box and don't remember ever shooting a woodchuck with one.
Do you find much of a differents in POI between the lighter bullets and the 70 grain Speer? And, is there a forend pressure point or free-floating?
Remington 700 20" heavy barrel varmint rifle... it does an excellent job at 400 yards and under on rock chucks and paper targets.
I have never owned a semi-auto .223 and have never really found much reason for me to buy one. There are better cartridges for HD /SD.
I have never owned a semi-auto .223 and have never really found much reason for me to buy one. There are better cartridges for HD /SD.
ECVMatt
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Yes there is a difference in the POI between the two loads. You could definitely switch back and forth between the two loads and still hit a coyote at 100 yards, but you could also hit out of the kill zone and not get a clean hit. I don't have a problem killing things, but I don't want them to suffer. We were also very fixated on practical accuracy and making good shots. Being off by an inch or two was not acceptable.
In terms of the barrel/stock interface, we did not mess with that very much. Our rifles were more like tools. When free floating barrels became a thing we cut strips of plastic from a Dr. Pepper bottle and stacked them under the recoil lug until the barrel was free floated. Problem solved! My Ruger .223 has contact all the way along the length of the stock.
So back to the OP's question. Yes I still like the .223. In many ways it is like a very useful ranch tool like a goldenrod or a hi-lift jack - there might be bigger or better ways to get things done, but they are most likely back in the barn. It is effective, efficient, generally handy and works on a cattleman's budget.
After free-floating the barrel by shimming under the recoil lug, you were lucky that it worked fine, because the thing I've been taught is: "When bedding bolt actions, there should be clearance between the bottom of the recoil lug and the stock, or the bedding will not have adequate stability". Glad that the "Doctor" helped you "cure" the problem.
el Godfather
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Well it has more to do with the platform that happened to be for a few of my rifles than just the caliber itself.
AR15 XM15 M17s and Galil to name a few. All of them excellent for HD/SD and target shooting. Ammo is light and magazines (except galil) are cheap.
What not to like?
For hunting its on the lighter side and as a matter of principle I do not like semi autos (for most 223/556 are such).
OP
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Hog huntin Harry
Member
After educating my thick skull I've changed my opinion of 223/556. I'm now in the market for a bolt action 223.
swagbrdr
Member
I’m going with a no on this one. There’s always a better caliber for any of the choices on the list...except for maybe target shooting.
I own two different ARs chambered in 223/556. Other than you can find all kinds of goodies for the black rifles, I would always grab something else in the safe to do actual work...besides plinking. Where I hunt, the varmints are full sized arctic wolves...so I’d prefer at least a .30 cal.
I own two different ARs chambered in 223/556. Other than you can find all kinds of goodies for the black rifles, I would always grab something else in the safe to do actual work...besides plinking. Where I hunt, the varmints are full sized arctic wolves...so I’d prefer at least a .30 cal.
I will not begrudge your choice, but have you seen what a 60 gr. partition launched out of a 22" 223 Rem. can do to a critters throat at 200 yds?
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