Kimber TLE II loss of accuracy

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Waterboy3313

Waterboy3313

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I bought my Kimber TLE II new about 4 years ago. I have about 1500-2000 rounds through it. This pistol has been very good as far reliability and accuracy is concerned. About a month ago I started to notice the accuracy has really fallen off. Today I couldn't even hit a 3 inch target at 20 feet. Usually I shoot a 7-8 round magazine at this distance and have one big hole where most if not all holes are touching.

After shooting this morning I came home and dissembled it thinking maybe the barrel was dirty. It was so clean I was surprised. I have always taken very good care of this gun keeping very clean and lubricated. I have only used one brand of ammo in it with very good results and shoot mostly reloads that I personally load myself with the same components the whole time all loaded to the same OAL and powder weight. I am very ocd with my reloads and they have been very accurate.

Thinking maybe I loaded an off batch of ammo I tried a box of the factory stuff and put 2 rounds into the 3 inch target out of 7 fired. I'm starting to wonder what is going on here. Is the barrel shot out already? I don't think it was me being off I was shooting my 357 today very good at over 150 yards.
 
Bruno Friia said:
Kimber recommends that you change the recoil spring after 1500 rounds - have you checked this out?
Click to expand...

I did change the recoil spring out at about 1200 rounds. It was back to great reliability and accuracy for a few hundred more rounds then about a month or so ago the accuracy really fell off.
 
I would contact Kimber's customer service office at this point. They are really good about helping their customers.
 
Ok, your reloads could be contributing to the issue, or you could also check the stability of your sights. Are you grouping still or are your groups a lot wider? If you are still grouping then check the sight alignment. If the groups are all over check tightness of sights, barrel bushing and slide fitment. At lock-up, does your barrel move around? Just a few thoughts.
 
The TLE II uses fixed sights, the rear sight has a single Allen head screw that is tight and no movement on the sight itself that my eyes can detect. Front sight appears to be firmly attached however it is held in place.

Barrel seems pretty snug very small amount of free movement in the bushing I think its hard to tell if the barrel is actually moving or if it's my eyes playing tricks on me.

The target shows no grouping what so ever.
 
Has your factory ammo changed? Different lot #. New powder container or new shipment of bullets? Not likely a gun problem. You'll get it sorted out. Eliminate one variable at a time.
 
Maybe grab a few different boxes of factory ammo, and take it to the bench. That way you can remove yourself (as much as possibly) as a variable, and your reloads. Once you've confirmed nothing is shooting well from the bench, you can at least pass that information along to Kimber.

It's not that I doubt your ability to shoot well, or your reloads. But it's the easiest place to start.
 
Has your factory ammo changed? Different lot #. New powder container or new shipment of bullets? Not likely a gun problem. You'll get it sorted out. Eliminate one variable at a time.
Click to expand...

I don't think so as I bought a pile of it at the same time I bought the gun. I guess it's possible there could have be a different lot that was mixed in. As far as my reloading components I have gone through several different boxes of bullets, primers and powder containers but stick to the same exact stuff.

I was irritated this morning I was planning on doing several different work ups for different calibers and forgot my chair that goes with my shooting bench. Next time I go I will remember to take it so I can sit behind my rest and take as much of myself out of the equation as possible.

The one thing that gets me is I shoot pretty decent on a bad day or a lot better than I did today. Factory loads or my reloads shoot pretty good and my reloads feel pretty much factory. If I was handed my pistol and wasn't told if it was my usual factory stuff or my reloads I honestly don't think I would be able to tell the difference.
 
This is going to sound retarded (and, coming from me, it's almost guaranteed...) but maybe try a different magazine.
 
I have several and it doesn't seem to make a difference. When I had it apart the other day I scrubbed the barrel out really good. It looked clean but my patches said it wasn't as clean as I maybe thought. I also pulled the extractor and firing pin. The pin was clean but the extractor likes to grow boogers.

Maybe something I did while it was apart solved the problem. Maybe next weekend I will try again.
 
Have someone else shoot the pistol if possible. It never hurts to eliminate operator error. I am not suggesting you’re not a good shot
 
Maybe consider things other than the gun... how's your eyesight? Any changes in the lighting (time of day, etc.) where you shoot? "About a month ago" is when the lockdowns hit....
 
Have you examined the barrel bushing for cracks? I've had an old style Colt bushing crack before...

With the slide off the frame, and barrel bushing in place, slide the barrel into battery... any play or hangup?

Truthfully, I suspect something mechanical... not related to the load, or even your shooting technique, based on what you describe. I've got 2 Kimbers, 4" ones, so they don't use the separate barrel bushing; one has well over 10K rounds through it and although it isn't as tight as it was on Day 1, it's still accurate and reliable... and I don't clean my stuff very often, so I know it's gunky.
 
I generally shoot at the same area at the same place usually at the same time. Lockdown? What's that? My schedule and most of the city I live in has been business as usual. I have not stopped my regular routine. If I wouldn't have shot other pistols that day I might question myself. I was probably shooting everything else better than usual. I hit a bowling pin 4 times in a row that was ranged by a guy shooting next to me at 160 yards with my GP 100.

Maybe the Kimber is getting mad because it's not favorite pistol anymore.
 
You could bench rest the gun or better yet, find a gunsmith who can test fire the gun in a Ransom Rest, which will benchmark the accuracy of the gun and your loads. It sounds like you’re into a regular rhythm with you’re range sessions, which considering the current lockdown situation, a lot of people are not, myself included.
 
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Next time I go to the range I will be taking my rest. Hopefully between the deep clean and shooting from a rest I should be able to get it sorted out. I haven't been out as much as usual lately because I have had some other things going on. I usually try to make a habit of making 2-4 trips to the range each month.
 
Kimber is known for less than perfect barrel fitting resulting in lots of barrel bump. It's possible that one of the barrel feet has been worn down more than the other due to barrel bump which is causing the barrel to tip left or right as it goes into battery. This will have a decidedly negative effect on accuracy.

Below is a picture showing an extreme example of barrel bump. Take a look at your barrel feet to see if there is evidence of barrel bump.

3JRmvLK.jpg
 
Here are some additional images of lower lug fit to the slide stop pin.

The first pic shows a perfect fit. Note that the only contact with the slide stop pin is on the flats of the lower lug feet and that contact is even across both feet. This is what you want to see. Uneven contact will cause the barrel to lift up on one side as it goes into battery.

5FaeJnF.jpg


In the next pic you can just make out a flattened area just below the flat area of lug foot. You don't want this.
3Vo7yQF.jpg


The next pic is a different barrel showing the same barrel bump are as the picture above.

oCzoi5a.jpg
 
You said that this started after changing the RSA. Put the old one back in and see if it gets better.
Click to expand...

I'm assuming this is a reference to the recoil spring? If so I think I'm 96% the old one was tossed out with the trash. I changed it out because after about 20 or so rounds the slide would hang up and stop 1/2" or 3/8 " short of being locked into battery.

Maybe it is something spring related I'm not sure but I actually never thought of it so thankyou for the idea. New springs are cheap so I guess replacing it won't hurt.


I never really paid much attention to the barrel lug. It didn't look obviously screwed up but maybe another tear down and closer inspection should be done. I am no means any kind of firearms expert I just like to shoot a lot. All suggestions and tips are greatly appreciated thank you all for your positive input.
 
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One thing about the recoil spring actually came to my mind after my last post. The replacement spring kit recoil spring and firing pin spring was a Wolfe kit. If I remember correctly the recoil was a 16 pound progressive spring. Hopefully this is not a problem. I ordered it online and didn't catch it was a progressive spring until well after it was ordered.

My reloads are very factory feeling if you use the seat of the pants dynometer. 4.5gr titegroup with a 230gr round nose plated rmr bullet with an OAL of 1.25.
 
Waterboy3313 said:
If I remember correctly the recoil was a 16 pound progressive spring. Hopefully this is not a problem.
Click to expand...
It's not a problem but FYI variable recoil springs are more for use with light loads.

Any 5" 1911 that is correctly constructed and shoots standard pressure factory 230gr FMJ ammo will run perfectly fine with 14lb or 16lb recoil springs. If it won't, there's something wrong inside the pistol and it's usually a geometry issue. Barrel bump can cause all kinds of malfunctions up to and including failure-to-return-to-battery.

Some manufacturers will insist on running 18.5lb recoil springs in their newly made pistols in the hope that the extra forward speed of the slide will bash ill fitted internal parts hard enough that the pistol will function. Rather than spend the time to correctly fit the lower barrel lugs the manufacturer instead depends on the extra power recoil spring to mask the poor fitting job through brute force and cross their fingers that not too many owners will demand the company fix the issue under warranty.
 
Charlie98 said:
Have you examined the barrel bushing for cracks? I've had an old style Colt bushing crack before...

With the slide off the frame, and barrel bushing in place, slide the barrel into battery... any play or hangup?

Truthfully, I suspect something mechanical... not related to the load, or even your shooting technique, based on what you describe. I've got 2 Kimbers, 4" ones, so they don't use the separate barrel bushing; one has well over 10K rounds through it and although it isn't as tight as it was on Day 1, it's still accurate and reliable... and I don't clean my stuff very often, so I know it's gunky.
Click to expand...
I really sounds mechanical. I would first inspect the barrel thoroughly, including the crown and parts of the hood and chamber. Perhaps take it to a gunsmith that is skilled in the 1911. What ever is wrong, is not something that happen gradually since the loss of accuracy happened rapidly and it follows that what ever happened occurred all at once.
Start with the lug and link looking for a crack
IMG_5637.jpeg.ce7bebdd0384f2c658f3ec697509800e.jpg
 
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