1911: .45 Automatic vs 9x19mm

I'm very diligent about letting my Jhp 9mm ammo all know that ''they should never expand a micro moment too soon, or too late'', in which case they're no better than old school 9mm, or even ball ammo. And ''don't forget to hang on to your jacket''.

I think it's sinking in. But it's hard to tell if my ammo is listening.

Seriously though. When the ammo expands, and whether or not the jacket stays bonded, is the tiny thin line that separates good modern 9mm from the weak old stuff. More than enough reason right there, to still choose 40 or 45 , if you'd like to.

For bullseye? 45
For hunting? 6 inch 10mm
For cheap plinks and bulk shooting? 9mm
For the history aspect? 45 or 38 super
For carry? Any of the 4 will do you good.

Trashyshoots said:

For bullseye? 45
For hunting? 6 inch 10mm
For cheap plinks and bulk shooting? 9mm
For the history aspect? 45 or 38 super
For carry? Any of the 4 will do you good.

Click to expand...

Having once concealed a 6” 10mm on a 1000 mile road trip, my car seat would beg to differ with you about “...any of the 4....”

briansmithwins said:

OTOH, you generally get twice as many w/o having to reload.

.45s being more effective might have been true before modern JHPs were designed.

BSW

Click to expand...

Usually need them.

Ed Ames said:

Having once concealed a 6” 10mm on a 1000 mile road trip, my car seat would beg to differ with you about “...any of the 4....”

Click to expand...

Well dont sit on it

Zerodefect said:

I haven't seen many that were reliable.

Click to expand...

Not at all my experience. Owned 2 9mm 1911s, have shot another half dozen or so extensively (so not a huge sample size, but it is my experience) and none have been any less reliable than my various .45 ACP 1911s.

The only one that has had issues is my fathers Wilson CQB doesn't like flat wide meplat 147 grain bullets, chamber is too tight. Then again, a number of my Glocks (all my Gen 5s, Gen 4 26) don't like the same bullets either. My 9mm Valkyrie likes them just fine though.

As I posted before in the thread, we have both 9mm and 45 acp 1911's
9mm holds two more bullets and has less muzzle flip; 45 acp shoots bigger bullets.
More bullets is advantageous, cause don't want to run out.
Bigger holes advantageous cause potentially stop attacker quicker - note, I used disclaimer potentially.
The term "caliber war" is stupid, because it is a whiny way of attempting to stifle discussion of pro & con - like I just wrote.
There is no "caliber war" - imagine if someone new to guns asked "What is a caliber war"? Its a caliber discussion.
I have both pistols and I cited advantages of both.
One can debate whether bigger bullets are worth sacrificing two rounds capacity.
Its a choice, not a "war" (war sounds stupid doesn't it).

CDW4ME said:

As I posted before in the thread, we have both 9mm and 45 acp 1911's
9mm holds two more bullets and has less muzzle flip; 45 acp shoots bigger bullets.
More bullets is advantageous, cause don't want to run out.
Bigger holes advantageous cause potentially stop attacker quicker - note, I used disclaimer potentially.
The term "caliber war" is stupid, because it is a whiny way of attempting to stifle discussion of pro & con - like I just wrote.
There is no "caliber war" - imagine if someone new to guns asked "What is a caliber war"? Its a caliber discussion.
I have both pistols and I cited advantages of both.
One can debate whether bigger bullets are worth sacrificing two rounds capacity.
Its a choice, not a "war" (war sounds stupid doesn't it).

Click to expand...

Well said.

The other advantage that calls to me is it's easier to get more hits, faster, with the 9mm* so in any given timeframe of shooting there's a good potential to get more rounds into the target, or a better chance to actually get hits in a chaotic situation.

Does that provide an advantage over potentially bigger bullets? Who knows, that's just up to the user and their preferences.

*Caveat: requires minimal penetration AND expansion for the bullets. Again, up to user preference, I don't go any smaller than 9mm. This is noted to prevent the silly tired, "just use a .22 then! Argument.". It's just as silly as advocating a single shot snub 12 gauge to the bigger is better bullet theory.

Mr. Mosin said:

.45's still make a noticeably larger temporary wound cavity.

Click to expand...

Negative grasshopper. There is less than 5% difference between the permanent would cavities of the three, 9, 40, 45, when you use MODERN SD ammo. TEMPORARY wound cavities DO NOT stop he fight, permanent wound cavities do.

I'll take the extra 5% every time.

LUCKYDAWG13 said:

View attachment 920130

Click to expand...

Definitely fine with either.

I shot these HST's through 4 layer denim into water filled gallon jugs, 9mm pictured on dimes, 45 on quarters, for reference.


The choice: quarters vs dimes, in 1911 you get two more dimes.

ETA: In before someone whines "coin war".

I have never been in a gunfight so my reply to this thread is based on personal opinion only.
I have carries a 1911 in one configuration or another for around 35 years.
I have never felt undergunned.
I have however practiced a goodly bit and have a couple combat pistol courses under my belt.
I feel the advantages of a 45 outweigh the 9. Bigger holes vs more holes.
How many rounds are you going to fire at the badguy?

I'd prefer to buy a gun made for the 9mm. such as the sa emp line. if I wanted a 1911 I'd go .45acp.or .38 super. that's all that belongs in a 1911.

for other calibers, there are much better platforms for them. others will disagree and that's fine.

jhb said:

I'd prefer to buy a gun made for the 9mm. such as the sa emp line. if I wanted a 1911 I'd go .45acp.or .38 super. that's all that belongs in a 1911.

Click to expand...

No 10mm? No 9X23 Winchester?

jhb said:

I'd prefer to buy a gun made for the 9mm. such as the sa emp line. if I wanted a 1911 I'd go .45acp.or .38 super. that's all that belongs in a 1911.

for other calibers, there are much better platforms for them. others will disagree and that's fine.

Click to expand...

I do wonder, not as a personal criticism just a more general observation, how many folks who espouse these beliefs actually have experience with the 9mm 1911.

I ask because I believed precisely this statement until I lucked into a trade I couldn't pass up for a 9mm 1911. One range trip changed my mind.

I wouldn’t carry a full size 1911 for CCW in any caliber. I wouldn’t carry one as a badge of rank either. As a combat/duty weapon it would be fine. They can be as reliable as you want them to be. As a range gun they’re great, and not shabby for home defense either.

I like mine in .45acp, but I am actively looking for a 9mm 1911, purely for pleasant shooting at the range.

The only context in which pistols routinely get a workout as a primary combat arm is police carry. If the officers trained regularly they’d be effective enough with them. But there’s a reason 1911s aren’t routinely issued. You can get way more capacity in a cheaper, more robust gun with a more manageable recoil and simpler manual of arms. There’s also a reason why 1911s are still extremely popular for recreational use and even self defense, by enthusiast gun owners, 120 years later. They don’t make Lugers, P38s, Beretta 34s, CZ27s or any number of other old gun designs anymore. The 1911 is a quality handgun which works very well. It just isn’t as well suited to organizational use as more modern designs.

JR24 said:

I do wonder, not as a personal criticism just a more general observation, how many folks who espouse these beliefs actually have experience with the 9mm 1911.

I ask because I believed precisely this statement until I lucked into a trade I couldn't pass up for a 9mm 1911. One range trip changed my mind.

Click to expand...

I have very little experience. I own one, a Kimber full size 9mm. About 10 minutes after becoming the owner, I put a .38 Super barrel in it. Wasn't much to it and I still have an unfired 9mm Kimber barrel around here somewhere. If it ever becomes an itch that needs scratched, I'll put the 9mm barrel back in it. Just don't have a good reason to currently.

fxvr5 said:

No 10mm? No 9X23 Winchester?

Click to expand...

not for me. I dont find the 1911 to be the best platform for 10mm. dont own a 9x23, so cant comment on that one. why stop there though......plenty of other rounds we could speak on stuffed into a 1911.

JR24 said:

I do wonder, not as a personal criticism just a more general observation, how many folks who espouse these beliefs actually have experience with the 9mm 1911.

I ask because I believed precisely this statement until I lucked into a trade I couldn't pass up for a 9mm 1911. One range trip changed my mind.

Click to expand...

not sure why'd youd try to not call it a personal criticism? just call it what it is, or dont. moving on from that.......

I have owned and used more than a few 1911s in 9mm and many other calibers in the past. my beliefs come from owning many many firearms and having spent many many years on the range with them. in other words my own personal hands on experiences is how I came to my own conclusions and beliefs. so wonder no more.

Trashyshoots said:

Well dont sit on it

Click to expand...

The problem was the muzzle trying to burrow through my jeans and down into the leather seat. Wore a thin patch in the pants and left a stretched out spot in the leather. It was fine otherwise. Not a problem I’ve had with even 5” 1911s, but the 6”? Yep.

Kleanbore said:

Of course, it one of them tends to provide fewer hits on critical boddy parts, the total effectiveness is much lower.

That is a matter of likelihood influenced by the number of shots that connect.

And one thing that drives that measure is recoil.

Click to expand...

That goes without saying if you have any common sense. There are MANY factors to consider when making your choice of a PPD, this is just one of them!

Without getting into a .45 vs 9mm debate regarding the effectiveness of one round over the other, if I was to buy another 1911 tomorrow, it would be a 9mm. The ammo is dirt cheap, you can shoot it a lot and practice trumps caliber every time.

Besides, the 9mm ammo of today is not what it was 20 years ago. 9mm is an effective round and did I mention cheap?

Simple answer... the 1911 grip frame is sized for a longer case... so why not use it?

I've got nothing against 9mm... I like it a lot and believe with the right bullet and loading it is reliable and effective.

But if I'm going to push a 0.355" dia. bullet out of a 1911, I'm going to go with 38 Super and take advantage of the larger case, as I roll my own.

If you shoot store bought ammo, I concede the better logistics of 9x19... but I personally will take the Super every time..... or better yet, 9x23 Win (.357 velocities our of a 1911)