If $ do not matter-Best BCG

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Well, the upper receiver and BCG on this build I'm running now have over 20K rounds on them and I can count on my hands the number of times it's been cleaned. Maybe I'm not getting dirty enough when I do my drills or play around. I don't know what to tell you.

All I said was that I like the phosphate finish because it absorbs oil. I don't know how that led to the dangers of running wet and all of that other stuff. No, I haven't done any duty in a desert, but my ARs typically see mud, dust, sand, etc. I just haven't experienced anything that says that I need to change my cleaning regimen. I didn't say that I never clean. All I said was that I don't like to and don't do it regularly.
You stated that you like the phosphate finish because it absorbs oil. I then posted a pic that shows the carrier rails and pointed out the those were the areas that needed lube. It does no good to cover the rest of the outside of the carrier with oil.
You then mentioned that you don’t clean your AR very much. I then pointed out the it was better to clean your rifle to keep undue wear.
During those post I did point out the advantages of the new coatings on BCGs.
There’s nothing wrong with a phosphate coated BCG. There are some outstanding ones out there. I have a couple of rifles that have FN phosphate BCGs. You will find that phosphate bolt carriers are Chrome lined. There are some that are not, but they are not of high quality.
Please don’t take any of this as personal attacks.
The fact that your rifle has served you well is a testament to the design of the rifle. The AR platform is not as fragile as some think.
 
You stated that you like the phosphate finish because it absorbs oil. I then posted a pic that shows the carrier rails and pointed out the those were the areas that needed lube. It does no good to cover the rest of the outside of the carrier with oil.
You then mentioned that you don’t clean your AR very much. I then pointed out the it was better to clean your rifle to keep undue wear.
During those post I did point out the advantages of the new coatings on BCGs.
There’s nothing wrong with a phosphate coated BCG. There are some outstanding ones out there. I have a couple of rifles that have FN phosphate BCGs. You will find that phosphate bolt carriers are Chrome lined. There are some that are not, but they are not of high quality.
Please don’t take any of this as personal attacks.
The fact that your rifle has served you well is a testament to the design of the rifle. The AR platform is not as fragile as some think.

Gunny, it's not a big deal. If I gave the impression that I took anything that you said as a personal attack, I didn't. I suppose it's just a short coming of this medium. I think that something is getting lost in the translation here.

Of course, it's entirely possible that I was a bit rushed and short in my responses too. You know what I do for a living and the state of things at this moment has me pulling my hair out. You're lucky you're retiring. I don't see things getting prettier anytime soon.

Anyway, I looked back at my post and I can see where there could have been some degree of misunderstanding in what I said. I didn't mean that I lube the whole bolt carrier. That would make a sloppy mess. I only lube the "rails" and the cam pin. Two drops on each rail and one on the cam pin. I just like that the phosphate finish will absorb some of that rather than all of it just running down the magwell. I figure with all of the pressure going through the action, some of it will get blown where it needs to be.

I once saw a video where they ran an AR dry to the point where it stopped running. They then dropped Vagisil into the vent ports in the bolt, racked it a couple of times, loaded it and then fired it. It started running again. Apparently, dropping lube in a place where it would get blown all over works some sort of magic. I suppose it's an efficient way to distribute 4 drops of "lube."

Please understand that I'm not saying that I totally neglect my ARs. I just don't break them down and go through them with a brush and solvent. When I lube my bolt, I'll wipe the bolt down, if for no other reason than because it's filthy. If I see that the inside of the upper is particularly cruddy, I'll wipe the bulk of the crud out with a rag and do what I can with the rag and my finger in the barrel extension. An airport restroom bath, so to speak.

That's about the bulk of the cleaning that I do. As I mentioned, I use Slip 2000. It's pretty good stuff. It does a good job of keeping stuff from sticking and doesn't cook off like most lubes. It's also non toxic so when I'm eating and licking my fingers while shooting, it won't kill me.

And honestly, if we're talking about long term wear that I could be subjecting my AR(s) to, I really don't worry about it much. For the amount of practicing that I do, replacing an upper or even a barrel is fairly cheap and doesn't take longer than half an hour. As I said, my upper, which has seen many iterations and forms, and the BCG seen MANY rounds. I also have to give a plug to the Geissele trigger. I shot it for the longest time thinking that it didn't need to be lubed and it never missed a beat.
 
I have a Fail Zero carrier and have found it does nothing a parked carrier doesn't. It's not any smoother and isn't any more reliable. Looks good, even after the coating darkened from crud, but that's it. The Fail Zero is a good carrier and a little easier to wipe down but it's not worth the extra money.

The carrier floats inside the upper and doesn't need much oil on the outside for smooth operation. But I oil it anyway to protect against corrosion.

The only place I've had an AR develop hard fouling build up is the tail of the bolt and inside the muzzle device. I've had heavy fouling cause malfunctions, but a little bit of oil got things going again.

Gunny, have you used coated carriers on dusty battlefields like you described earlier?
 
I have bought particular bolts before and some carriers that had different finishes and plating but never intentionally looked to spend the most amount of money I could on a BCG. I guess I have more regular boring milspec ones than anything else but they all still do their job.

That said money’s always an object to me. My wife loves to gamble, it’s fun for her and I let her have fun. She thinks I am a horrible gambler because I always seem to loose my “fun money” right off the bat, never asks about the new firearm I happened to be able to afford once we got back though.;)
Different strokes for different folks...

I like nice things but I don’t look at my AR’s, especially BCG’s that way, they just need to do their job reliability. I’d much rather put the extra money into other areas, like the barrel or trigger where I get more out of every additional dollar spent.
 
I have a Fail Zero carrier and have found it does nothing a parked carrier doesn't. It's not any smoother and isn't any more reliable. Looks good, even after the coating darkened from crud, but that's it. The Fail Zero is a good carrier and a little easier to wipe down but it's not worth the extra money.

The carrier floats inside the upper and doesn't need much oil on the outside for smooth operation. But I oil it anyway to protect against corrosion.

The only place I've had an AR develop hard fouling build up is the tail of the bolt and inside the muzzle device. I've had heavy fouling cause malfunctions, but a little bit of oil got things going again.

Gunny, have you used coated carriers on dusty battlefields like you described earlier?
My ARs have not been subjected to battlefield conditions like the M16s that I carried in the Corps. But I can tell you that a few range trips without cleaning your rifle would not get you close to living months on end without a roof over you head and your rifle ever by your side.
The Marine Corps used the standard phosphate coating on the M16A1 and A2. While playing in the jungles of the South Pacific, I carried a GM Hydra-Matic made M16A1. There was almost no finish left on the BCG, or the rest of the gun. I kept it well oiled due to the tropical environment.
The plus side to the new coatings and metal treatments used on BCGs is that they don’t require as much lub and they are easier to clean.
But there are high quality phosphate finished BCGs out there.
You say that the Fail Zero BCG was not any smoother then a Parked BCG?? This I find hard to believe.
 
I'd like to try the Young Mfg chrome bcg with their HMB bolt, but that haven't been in stock for a while.

I picked up all my bcg small parts from JSE surplus.
I have the Young chrome carrier. Works fine but the interior machining is just OK
 
I have been asked many times, why should I pay more money for a BCG? Or, Why does oneBCG cost more then another.
Quality control is the biggest factor. Now sometimes you are paying a little more for the name, but the biggest factor is the cost to inspect each and every one that the company puts it’s name on.
Some companies only spot check what they sell, but companies like BCM inspect each BCG to make sure that it meets their standards.
Check out the first half of this video to give you a better understanding.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=BaFOZAwspYI&usg=AOvVaw0Q48kuThQq87PeDlYNsX9q

Some people buy the best that they can afford, not because they will need it, but because that is how they are and they just want the best that they can get.
Some people buy whatever will get them by. As long as it gets the job done, they are happy.
Some people fall in between these two groups for one reason or another, many of which are just looking for a good deal.
There’s nothing wrong with anyone in these groups and the market caters to each.
I have seen low cost BCGs run with the big dogs, and I’ve seen expensive BCGs that have failed.
Of all the ARs I have built over the years, I have never had a BCG fail. I have paid as much as $160 and as little as $60. Now I did have one build that would not cycle 100%. I replaced the BCG and it ran perfect. That BCG that I took out of the rifle was used on another build and it worked 100%.
Now I did have to send a BCG back once to Aim Surplus, which they replaced. I had never used it in a rifle. I took it out of my extra parts to show a friend how to take it apart. The cam pin would not clear the gas key. I called Aim and they had me send it back for a replacement.
 
but companies like BCM inspect each BCG to make sure that it meets their standards.
Of all the ARs I have built over the years, I have never had a BCG fail.
As a data point (and not intended to be contrary - I agree with all of what you said), the only hard failure that I've had in the BCG was a BCM bolt that literally broke a lug off within the first 100rds. <shrug> Things happen, even with the best of kit.
 
As a data point (and not intended to be contrary - I agree with all of what you said), the only hard failure that I've had in the BCG was a BCM bolt that literally broke a lug off within the first 100rds. <shrug> Things happen, even with the best of kit.
Bolt lugs breaking of do happen. We’re you using a BCM upper? I remember seeing a video a few years ago where I guy had bolt lugs break off on to high end Bolts. It ended up being a problem with his barrel extension.
 
My ARs have not been subjected to battlefield conditions like the M16s that I carried in the Corps. But I can tell you that a few range trips without cleaning your rifle would not get you close to living months on end without a roof over you head and your rifle ever by your side.
Not interested in hearing about a few range trips without cleaning. Saw that for myself first hand. Almost broke a nail, once. However, I am interested if a carrier with a special coating makes a difference in battlefield conditions. Closest I've ever come to a battlefield was installing chaff/flare canisters on an A-10 while wearing a moppie suit during an exercise.

You say that the Fail Zero BCG was not any smoother then a Parked BCG?? This I find hard to believe.
To be clear, I mean my Fail Zero doesn't feel any smoother cycling in an upper than a phosphate carrier with a few rounds on it. The Fail Zero is a good carrier, but I would rather spend that kind of money on an LMT Enhanced carrier. I have seen first hand the LMT carrier is a functional improvement over a standard carrier. Let me stress I'm talking about the Enhanced carrier. I remain uncertain the LMT Enhanced bolt offers any noticeable improvement.
 
Some people buy the best that they can afford, not because they will need it, but because that is how they are and they just want the best that they can get.

I agree but what is our quantitative value for the qualitative “best”.

If it were just price alone a $25,000 Rolex would keep better time than a $10 Timex and that is not the case.
 
Bolt lugs breaking of do happen. We’re you using a BCM upper? I remember seeing a video a few years ago where I guy had bolt lugs break off on to high end Bolts. It ended up being a problem with his barrel extension.
I wanna say that it was a CMMG barrel. I do know that the next bolt has a BUNCH of rounds through it with no issue. It could have been a tolerance stack issue between the extension and bolt. It could have been an internal occlusion in the steel that shot peening and MPI can't catch / fix. Dunno - and that's OK. In the end, I just run them and assume that parts will eventually break. My job is to use parts with less likelihood of breaking, and maintain the weapon so that I further reduce the likelihood of hard stoppable, and then be prepared when things do break.
 
I wanna say that it was a CMMG barrel. I do know that the next bolt has a BUNCH of rounds through it with no issue. It could have been a tolerance stack issue between the extension and bolt. It could have been an internal occlusion in the steel that shot peening and MPI can't catch / fix. Dunno - and that's OK. In the end, I just run them and assume that parts will eventually break. My job is to use parts with less likelihood of breaking, and maintain the weapon so that I further reduce the likelihood of hard stoppable, and then be prepared when things do break.
Tolerance stack issues can be a problem with ARs. We are lucky the with CNC tolerances can be controlled much better then before. We still see it from time to time but not often.
I had an extra bolt from Brownell’s and picked up an unknown clean used bolt carrier for $25 at a pawn shop. I used the BCG in a fun build. With just over 500 rounds it hasn’t shown any problems. But then I’m lucky sometimes.
 
Oh, BTW, Tom's Tactical looks to have some good prices on ToolCraft BCGs right now. Nitrided was $99 and Nickel Boron was $129, I believe. These are supposed to be pretty good.
 
Not interested in hearing about a few range trips without cleaning. Saw that for myself first hand. Almost broke a nail, once. However, I am interested if a carrier with a special coating makes a difference in battlefield conditions. Closest I've ever come to a battlefield was installing chaff/flare canisters on an A-10 while wearing a moppie suit during an exercise.


To be clear, I mean my Fail Zero doesn't feel any smoother cycling in an upper than a phosphate carrier with a few rounds on it. The Fail Zero is a good carrier, but I would rather spend that kind of money on an LMT Enhanced carrier. I have seen first hand the LMT carrier is a functional improvement over a standard carrier. Let me stress I'm talking about the Enhanced carrier. I remain uncertain the LMT Enhanced bolt offers any noticeable improvement.
How much did you pay for your Fail Zero?
I’ve been picking them up on sale from $100 to $125.
 
How much did you pay for your Fail Zero?
I’ve been picking them up on sale from $100 to $125.
For just the carrier, I believe I paid $185, ten years ago. Mated it to a 20 inch Lothar-Walther barrel with a matched bolt. Very accurate barrel.

(Edit- It was ten years ago, not twenty)
 
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Don’t worry, it takes a whole lot to ruffle my feathers. ;) If you check out my post on the forum, you can pretty much tell that I’m laid back, but sometimes very blunt.
I just find it funny that people post in topics that they have little to no interest in. This often happens in a topic like, which Glock do you like best. Someone will come along and let everyone know that he does not like Glocks and the Sig or some other brand is better.

Yep, I get it. I did kinda do that there. At least I have three ARs though...so I have some experience as that supports my opinion.

Last post for me on this thread! No more derailing!
 
I purchased some toolcraft BCGs when they were on sale for $60, after a good cleaning and lubrication I installed one in a 20" build and it has never failed to perform, when I clean my gun I drop the BCG into an ultrasonic cleaner with Eds red then wipe it down and lube and install, I think a cleaning of ANY firearms will contribute to longevity.
 
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