SIG SAUER Delivers Next Generation Squad Weapons to U.S. Army

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hps1

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The virus hasn't stopped SIG's work on their new weapons system/ammo.
SIG SAUER 6.8mm Hybrid Ammunition: designed to enhance mission effectiveness, this high-pressure, compact round combines a significant reduction in weight, with the ability to handle higher pressures resulting in increased velocity and greater penetration. Additionally, based on the cartridge design and the traditional manufacturing processes, the growth potential of the SIG 6.8mm ammunition is exponential.

https://www.sigsauer.com/press-rele...rsDayGifts&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua

Regards,
hps
 
Very cool.

So they went with 6.8 caliber.....interesting.
 
Very cool.

So they went with 6.8 caliber.....interesting.

To be sure, the DoD selected 6.8mm and provided the actual projectiles (bullets). Sig and other contractors in the competition had to design the case, propellant, and rifle around the DoD-supplied bullet.
 
And you won't be shooting any of the Sig ammo in your personal firearms, at least not safely. The new Sig cartridge is designed to run at 80,000 PSI. 308 runs at 60,000 PSI.
 
My question is will all these weapons be manufactured in the US? I seriously doubt that the New Hampshire location can meet the demand should they win the competition. Seems like a large portion of the important products we need such as pharmaceuticals and the PPE that has run short in the covid19 is being sourced in foreign countries. And as in the case of China, a country that isn't that friendly to America. Why are we considering spending our tax dollars to purchase foreign made weapons for our military?
 
So, basically a .25 caliber round?

Forgive me for my ignorance here, as I'm a retired submariner.

I take this is essentially for a "light machine gun"? Is there really a need for something between the 5.56 and the 7.62?
 
It's .277" -- same as 270 Winchester. The lab geeks determined 6.5mm has the best external ballistics, but .277" has a slight advantage in terminal performance -- this is almost certainly an oversimplification, but it is the often-repeated summarization that the "brass" has certainly heard if not believed. The shortcoming of .308" is heavier bullets (at least for the same BC's) resulting in more recoil and lower-velocity (not good for armor penetration).
 
I don't know if the new 6.8 "magnum" cartridges they're considering will replace 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 or supplement them. If I had to speculate, I would imagine they are looking for something completely new as part of their pivot from fighting assymetrical insurgencies to preparing to fight heavily armed and armored major powers with substantial industrial capacity like China. They perceive a need to shift from totally unarmored combatants toward an enemy where equivalent of level IV armor is standard issue.
 
So, basically a .25 caliber round?

Forgive me for my ignorance here, as I'm a retired submariner.

I take this is essentially for a "light machine gun"? Is there really a need for something between the 5.56 and the 7.62?

It will be a .277 diameter bullet. Sig is submitting two weapons as part of this program. These two weapons would replace both the M4 and the SAW.
 
Sig has delivered the weapons and ammunition for testing. General Dynamics, and Textron also have entries.

Look up TrueVelocity ammo, too. MV of TV ammo approaches 3,200fps with a 139gr .277” version of the M855A1 projectile. Large polymer/ stainless steel case construction.

Though the .277SIG operates at 80,000psi avg pressure, due to case construction (stainless steel head, brass body mechanically locked), will be useable in conventional firearms chambered for the round. Sig already has a chassis bolt action rifle in commercial production in .277SIG.

TrueVelocity also has a line of 5.56, 7.62, and .50BMG ammunition but is concentrated on military production and sales.
Interesting times!
 
you should be able to translate into English

https://www.bild.de/geld/wirtschaft...er-waffenhersteller-pleite-71056132.bild.html

if not, here is a clip

by: MAXIMILIAN KIEWELpublished on06/04/2020 - 01:57 p.m.
Sig Sauer, Germany's oldest weapon manufacturer, is broke according to BILD information.

On Thursday, managing director Tim Castagne informed the entire workforce and the works council that the Eckernförde site had to be closed.


125 employees lose their jobs. Castagne to BILD: "The decision of the shareholders is bitter and makes me sad."
 
you should be able to translate into English

https://www.bild.de/geld/wirtschaft...er-waffenhersteller-pleite-71056132.bild.html

if not, here is a clip

by: MAXIMILIAN KIEWELpublished on06/04/2020 - 01:57 p.m.
Sig Sauer, Germany's oldest weapon manufacturer, is broke according to BILD information.

On Thursday, managing director Tim Castagne informed the entire workforce and the works council that the Eckernförde site had to be closed.


125 employees lose their jobs. Castagne to BILD: "The decision of the shareholders is bitter and makes me sad."


Sig Sauer, Germany's oldest weapon manufacturer, is broke according to BILD information.

On Thursday, managing director Tim Castagne informed the entire workforce and the works council that the Eckernförde site had to be closed.

125 employees lose their jobs. Castagne to BILD: "The decision of the shareholders is bitter and makes me sad."

The background is the lack of business in the corona pandemic, but also the fact that Sig Sauer was unable to prevail against the competition on large orders, for example for the new Bundeswehr assault rifle.

For comparison: in the United States, the army is equipped with pistols from Sig Sauer, in Great Britain anti-terrorist units rely on Sig Sauer assault rifles. However, these are manufactured and sold by the American sister Sig Sauer Inc. and not in Eckernförde

Regards,
hps
 
I don't know if the new 6.8 "magnum" cartridges they're considering will replace 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 or supplement them. If I had to speculate, I would imagine they are looking for something completely new as part of their pivot from fighting assymetrical insurgencies to preparing to fight heavily armed and armored major powers with substantial industrial capacity like China. They perceive a need to shift from totally unarmored combatants toward an enemy where equivalent of level IV armor is standard issue.

I think "supplement." The new guns and ammo will be so expensive that only the most elite outfits will get them. COs will scramble to get them to prove their outfits are elite.
 
Is there really a need for something between the 5.56 and the 7.62?
Yes, and using current doctrine and practice, this decision does have sound, if academic, principles behind it.

Whether this will be borne out in actual practice will remain to be seen.

Whether we wind up in a situation where the presumptions are carried all the way out to the planned extremes, also will remain to be seen, as well. (I'd rather not get into enough shooting war to test our TraDoc to its core.)

The tactical principle can be described simply enough. We have to skim over the complexities of combined arms operations and minimum maneuver unit sizes (that's a thorny debate for other fora).

But basically we are addressing the specific needs of a Rifle Company in contact. A Rifle Company applies itself to the task by deploying its Platoons, which, in their turn, apply their Squads (Squad, Platoon, & Company size & organization are a bitter and acrimonious debate that is over a century old, and still not resolved, and is also best argued elsewhere). The Rifle Company has a dedicated Weapons Platoon to support the Company's operations. Those operations will support the Platoons. Which leaves the Squads some what on their own, unless they are being specifically supported by Company (or Higher) fires. Which means the Squad only has their own rifles to achieve their immediate goals. They are reliant on being able to call upon Platoon or Company assets in support of either offense or defense. Which gets complicated. It's very common for a Company to only have two GPMG they can use, which might have to cover 9 different Squads from the 3 Platoons.

The 5.56x45 Rifle ammo gives a reasonable reach for any one rifleman, and good utility for a Squad of them, but, by definition, "rifle range" works both ways. If the Squad is in offense, it would be nice to be able to suppress the enemy at, say 200m or 400m beyond "rifle" range, especially with heavier projectiles (there's still another LMG argument, about half a century old, that is also not germane here). In Defense, the Squad also wants to be able to reach out beyond rifle range to suppress or redirect attacks.

The current answer is to either put a lot of 5.56 ball out there using a SAW (like the M249), or to embed 7.62x51 support at some approximation of the Squad level. And, that 7.62x51 is really optimized for Platoon or Company level use, rather than the Squad level.

Enter in this new 7x51 (or 6.8x51 or .270"super" or whatever. More reach than 5.56, less reach (if quibbling for now) than 7.62x51.

The Army has already stated that they have no intention of replacing infantry rifles in any way, shape, or form. And, that's logical in the same way that not giving every infantryman an M240 is logical. Or in giving them all an M247.
The SAW gunner is a person already humping a heavy load. It's a relatively unique load, too. So, changing the ammo probably will not have much impact on the logistics (back injuries, maybe--again, different topic).

Now, DoD has always wanted--as they always do--this new round to be everything, better than first bicycles, sliced bread or Buck Roger's Ray gun. This new round probably would work just as well as 7x45, but it's meant, by DoD, to be capable of killing tanks, anti-satellite operations, and defenestrating Ming the Merciless--roles far beyond the needs of ordinary grunts in a Rifle Squad.

Will it wander out into the civilian word? What hasn't?
Will it have a use? Dunno, probably only to further complicate arguments over .270 vs. .280 vs .243 (or any of the .25's). Does not take a crystal ball to assert that an AR upper of some sort will show up. And that there might be a bolt action or six (and that Kel Tec will probably beat the market).
 
My nephew who was an operator in Delta when he retired always carried something larger than the .223 because he wanted something that would both penetrate and hit harder than the M-4 that he carried for close in stuff. He always had an AK among other things. Those guys generally get what they want.
 
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