Why are mini 14's so expensive

Old Stumpy said:

Great idea. Why don't you or the many other members who have ventured their opinions do just that?

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Mainly because I couldn't care less what Ruger thinks. Some have expressed that they do, I don't.

Frankly, I haven't felt a great need to hear their opinion after thousands of for sale ads confirming the consensus of supply, demand and prices factually paid in auctions. If we just cut to the chase, "because that's what people want to and do pay for them" is the simple answer. More detailed reasons vary individually, mine was "I wanted one", which obviously is the natural reason for any purchase without a particular obligation to explain it any further.

hq said:

Mainly because I couldn't care less what Ruger thinks. Some have expressed that they do, I don't.

Frankly, I haven't felt a great need to hear their opinion after thousands of for sale ads confirming the consensus of supply, demand and prices factually paid in auctions. If we just cut to the chase, "because that's what people want to and do pay for them" is the simple answer. More detailed reasons vary individually, mine was "I wanted one", which obviously is the natural reason for any purchase without a particular obligation to explain it any further.

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Essentially what you are saying here is that you don't care about the actual reasons that may exist for the high prices of Mini 14s, which only a statement from Ruger could definitively provide.

Instead, you prefer to extrapolate and interpolate your various experiences, and to craft this into an opinion, and to then to declare a narrative based on this opinion as fact.

An opinion remains always just an opinion however, and is not necessarily factual or correct. A consensus of opinions absent the facts is again still speculative.

hq said:

Mainly because I couldn't care less what Ruger thinks. Some have expressed that they do, I don't.

Frankly, I haven't felt a great need to hear their opinion after thousands of for sale ads confirming the consensus of supply, demand and prices factually paid in auctions. If we just cut to the chase, "because that's what people want to and do pay for them" is the simple answer. More detailed reasons vary individually, mine was "I wanted one", which obviously is the natural reason for any purchase without a particular obligation to explain it any further.

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That's exactly why I ordered one. That and the fact that I've got the money to spend how I want to now, which wasn't always the case when I was younger.

Y'all realize the price doubles each time the rifle moves through the supple chain? The retail, or used price, we pay is not always directly dependent on production cost. I've heard plenty of times that "something is worth whatever two parties agree on." That being said, yeah, some of us bought a Mini-14 because we wanted one. Then, some of us figured out what a good deal it was.

Boattale said:

That's exactly why I ordered one. That and the fact that I've got the money to spend how I want to now, which wasn't always the case when I was younger.

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Why not?

Ruger Mini 14s are great rifles. Enjoy!

mustanger98 said:

The retail, or used price, we pay is not always directly dependent on production cost. I've heard plenty of times that "something is worth whatever two parties agree on." That being said, yeah, some of us bought a Mini-14 because we wanted one. Then, some of us figured out what a good deal it was.

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Absolutely. I can imagine folks in ban states or facing new laws like just imposed in Canada wouldn't have much grumbling about the pricing of new Mini14 or fuss about whether ARs were better when they cannot have either one.

Old Stumpy said:

Essentially what you are saying here is that[SNIP]

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No. That's what you're claiming that I'm saying, which is a quite a bit different matter.

Demand exists because they're bought. Supply exists as Ruger hasn't discontinued the models, they've even retooled the production line fairly recently. Supply and demand meet at a price buyers are willing to pay. Second hand market confirms the concept. It has its well-known qualities which suffice nicely to attract buyers. It sells. That's it.

Ruger has probably profiled individual customer purchase motives over and over so if you actually care so much about this in statistical scale, feel free to contact Ruger for details. Don't ask me to because I really don't, if that hasn't become apparent by now.

mustanger98 said:

Y'all realize the price doubles each time the rifle moves through the supple chain? The retail, or used price, we pay is not always directly dependent on production cost. I've heard plenty of times that "something is worth whatever two parties agree on." That being said, yeah, some of us bought a Mini-14 because we wanted one. Then, some of us figured out what a good deal it was.

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Umm...no.

It doesn't go that way.

hq said:

No. That's what you're claiming that I'm saying, which is a quite a bit different matter.

Demand exists because they're bought. Supply exists as Ruger hasn't discontinued the models, they've even retooled the production line fairly recently. Supply and demand meet at a price buyers are willing to pay. Second hand market confirms the concept. It has its well-known qualities which suffice nicely to attract buyers. It sells. That's it.

Ruger has probably profiled individual customer purchase motives over and over so if you actually care so much about this in statistical scale, feel free to contact Ruger for details. Don't ask me to because I really don't, if that hasn't become apparent by now.

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Okley Dokley.

Almost all semi-auto centerfire rifles are “expensive.” Look how much a FAL costs these days. Or even an AK-74. Or even a Wasr-10 AK, that used to be $300. They’re now like $700+ if you can even find one. (The AR is a glaring exception due to its popularity and multiplicity of makers, and represents a great value.) Ruger keeps their price at a position that seems to suit the market. These days there probably isn’t a whole lot of AR/Mini cross-shopping, because the guy who wants an AR wants an AR, and the guy who wants a Mini, wants the old school wood stock. Or is perhaps locked into it by local laws.

So they run the numbers and they conclude that at 900 (or whatever MSRP is these days) they are maximizing their profit. If they lower it they might sell more units but not enough to make up for the lost $ per unit. If some other company decided to play and came up with a notably better or cheaper option in the wood-stock-semi-auto field, expect Ruger to drop their price accordingly, or update their rifle to compare, or do some extra marketing to tell us all why theirs is the original and better, premium product and deserves its higher price.

mustanger98 said:

Y'all realize the price doubles each time the rifle moves through the supple chain?

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Texas10mm said:

Umm...no. It doesn't go that way.

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Tend to agree margins won't be that high on a regular production item, otherwise some huge volume distributor would knock out their competition squeezing the margins and we'd see bigger price swings from seller to seller.

For the price to double at each step this is what we would see.

I'm using the Ruger 10/22 as an example. Walmart price $230.

Walmart to you $230
Distributor to Walmart $115
Wholesale to Distributor $57.50
Ruger to Wholesale $28.75
Ruger's cost $14.37

If anyone thinks that Ruger only has $14.37 into a Ruger 10/22 please raise your hand.

illinoisburt said:

Tend to agree margins won't be that high on a regular production item, otherwise some huge volume distributor would knock out their competition squeezing the margins and we'd see bigger price swings from seller to seller.

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It may or may not be dead-on double, but each middleman in the supply chain will get their profit margine. Ruger won't sell direct to the dealers' storefronts. How many middlemen are y'all counting. The guns are made in batches. Production costs are lower than most people think.

Not Ruger, but S&W... the M&P-15 Sport2 has been retailing suggested at $800 with asking retail at $700 at Palmeto State. A shop in my area, back in February, had that model "on sale" for $460. What do y'all figure they cost when S&W shipped to the distributors? I'd say they're a good bit less than y'all talk about building an AR for using parts bought for retail prices.

Now really about costs, but a fun comparison of the designs of the construction between mini-14 and m-14..

mustanger98 said:

It may or may not be dead-on double, but each middleman in the supply chain will get their profit margine. Ruger won't sell direct to the dealers' storefronts. How many middlemen are y'all counting. The guns are made in batches. Production costs are lower than most people think.

Not Ruger, but S&W... the M&P-15 Sport2 has been retailing suggested at $800 with asking retail at $700 at Palmeto State. A shop in my area, back in February, had that model "on sale" for $460. What do y'all figure they cost when S&W shipped to the distributors? I'd say they're a good bit less than y'all talk about building an AR for using parts bought for retail prices.

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It's not even close to double.

At times companies blow out stock that's not selling or they blow out an old model. \

As far as I know Ruger sells to a few wholesale houses that sell to distributors who then sell to gun stores or sometimes directly to customers.

As has been stated if it were even close to double at some point someone is going to cut the next level out and sell them direct and keep more money for themselves.

With your great wisdom what do you think it costs Ruger to produce a basic Ruger 10/22?

Using publicly available data for 2017 Ruger had net sales of $552,260,000, or just over half a billion dollars. This was with producing 1,614,898 firearms, yet their NET income was $62,130,000. That's a net income 11.25%. If they were selling at double their production cost their net income would be MUCH higher. It shows that the COST of goods sold was $378,930,000. So cost of production is 68.6% of net sales, or a gross profit of 31.4%. Not even close to double which would be 100%.

Assuming no other sales than firearms that works out to $323.40 per firearm. Since many of Ruger's firearms sell at the retail level under this figure we would have to believe either they are selling $1 of accessories for every $1 of firearms, or the production costs of many of their firearms are higher than what some people would think.

A net income of 11.25% is a good ROI but not spectacular.

OK, this should get the Mini-14 disbelievers in a snit. Samson, in conjunction with Ruger, is manufacturing old style Ruger wood folding stocks for the Mini-14/30. They're using original Ruger steel molds, and the same wood stock maker Ruger used.

They have been sold out since the day they started shipping, with a several month wait time at this point. The stocks alone are going for almost $300, not much less than you could get a complete AR kit from PSA on one of their better sale days. I guess a lot of people think they're worth it.

By the way, the model of the stock is the A-TM, if you think that sounds like A-Team, well......

https://www.samson-mfg.com/a-tm-folding-stock-for-the-ruger-mini-14.html

Speedo66 said:

OK, this should get the Mini-14 disbelievers in a snit. Samson, in conjunction with Ruger, is manufacturing old style Ruger wood folding stocks for the Mini-14/30. They're using original Ruger steel molds, and the same wood stock maker Ruger used.

They have been sold out since the day they started shipping, with a several month wait time at this point. The stocks alone are going for almost $300, not much less than you could get a complete AR kit from PSA on one of their better sale days. I guess a lot of people think they're worth it.

By the way, the model of the stock is the A-TM, if you think that sounds like A-Team, well......

https://www.samson-mfg.com/a-tm-folding-stock-for-the-ruger-mini-14.html

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Regardless of the "superiority" of the AR, it is difficult to get one with a folding stock.

Pudge said:

Regardless of the "superiority" of the AR, it is difficult to get one with a folding stock.

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Not really. You just need to know where to look.

Speedo66 said:

OK, this should get the Mini-14 disbelievers in a snit. Samson, in conjunction with Ruger, is manufacturing old style Ruger wood folding stocks for the Mini-14/30. They're using original Ruger steel molds, and the same wood stock maker Ruger used.

They have been sold out since the day they started shipping, with a several month wait time at this point. The stocks alone are going for almost $300, not much less than you could get a complete AR kit from PSA on one of their better sale days. I guess a lot of people think they're worth it.

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Not a bad price for a quality specialty product. I always really liked those stocks.
The newer Mini 14s have much better sights than the originals so they are a great product.

Texas10mm said:

Not really. You just need to know where to look.

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You are correct, and I didn't know that was a thing. Of course, if you're going to get one that allows the AR to function folded, we lose that cost benefit, still very cool and was unknown to me. I didn't know there could be a work around for that tube, so I didn't even check. Still thinking about how cool that Dead Foot Arms adapter is. The "superiority" seems endless.

The A-Team didn't use the Mini-14 for the entire first season, but once the show got off the ground, for the second season in 1984, the decision was made not to use such a wide variety of weapons to save costs. The first season featured Browning BAR's, fake "Mac-Uzi"'s (a weird MAC-10 looking thing with a uzi foregrip), Thompsons, and M16's among a variety of handguns and other weapons. For the second season, they used semi-automatic Mini-14's frequently. They were semi-automatic, and the actors had to press the triggers frequently to keep the brass ejecting. The fully-automatic rate of fire was simulated with sound-effects and the pyro-technics (dust splashes etc.). Their Mini-14's lacked the same flash hider and bayonet lug that the AC556 has. No doubt the fake full-auto made them run longer before they ran out of brass to eject.

Because the gun is gas-piston operated, it doesn't use a buffer tube and can easily accommodate the folding stock. An AR-15 would need to be converted to a piston instead of direct impingement, but that kind of set up, like everything AR-related, is pretty widely available. Sig is probably the biggest brand name for piston-AR's. Whether piston or DI is better is no doubt the subject of long threads other than this one. In my mind, the shortcoming of Mini-14's with a folding stock is that the barrel is still too long. Besides that, the 5.56 chambering isn't well suited to very short barrels, so even if you could shorten the barrel to 9, 7, 5 inches or so, you would probably want it in the 7.62 or 300 offering. A Mini-14 in 300 has some merit, but with the long barrel, once you add a suppressor, it gets pretty long, even with a folding stock.

If, in Y2K, a Mini-14 sold for $400 as one shop I know priced it, Ruger would've sold it to XYZ distributor for approximately $100-125/unit. XYZ would ship to the shop for $200-250 where the sporting goods manager would try his best to act like they're not making any money. Making the profit margins is a forgone conclusion because if they don't, its unsustainable. Best I can tell, having been acquainted with some of those guys, if they're poor-mouthing all the way to the cash register, they're laughing all the way to the bank. Otherwise, most wouldn't want to deal with it. That said, both parties have to remember it's people on both sides of a deal. Some parts of the country, neighbors and working relationships still matter.

As far as the A-team and the Mini-14's popularity, I don't know that they're that different to any other 1980's TV show. The impression of whole lot of lead flying, but I don't recall too many where they could hit the barn wall from the inside.

Deleted due to lack of high road.

Old Stumpy said:

Essentially what you are saying here is that you don't care about the actual reasons that may exist for the high prices of Mini 14s, which only a statement from Ruger could definitively provide.

Instead, you prefer to extrapolate and interpolate your various experiences, and to craft this into an opinion, and to then to declare a narrative based on this opinion as fact.

An opinion remains always just an opinion however, and is not necessarily factual or correct. A consensus of opinions absent the facts is again still speculative.

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