Old Marlin's vs Old Winchester's

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Mr. Mosin

Mr. Mosin

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Not a buying post, but a curiosity post.

I know Winchester is... Winchester, and has generally been known and renowned for their quality and craftsmanship. Speaking mainly of Winchester '94's specifically, and Marlin 336's/Mdl '93/etc. Has Marlin ever been an equal or superior to Winchester in regards to fit/finish/quality; now or ever ? Many say the Winchester has a far slicker action, but I've personally seen someone lock up a '94 solid (required gunsmith disassembly (live ammo in it)) by being "gentle" and toying with it. I've rarely seen a Marlin hang up by not running it at speed, and never saw one lock up solid. Many say the Marlin is easier to field strip (and I can't disagree), and for many, ease of maintenance trumps a slightly rougher action. The '94 is (or was) ambidextrous. Talking points aside, who trumps who, regarding fit/finish/function ?
 
For for and finish, Marlin doesn't stand a chance.
For function, Marlin is better except for the angle eject.
For reliability, the Winchester beats the Marlin.
These are my opinions based off my experience.
I like scopes on rifle caliber guns. So I'm biased.
 
There are variations of quality in both brands. I ow several of both companies. JM Marlins seem to be the best. Winchester evolved into several companies over the years. Good and bad. I have 7 JM Marlins and they are great. I have my Grandfathers Model 94 30Wcf and a 80,s 94AE 30-30 Trapper. All are nice, Both companies have had ups and downs. Just research what your buying is the best advise.
 
When?

A 1993 Marlin will have been better than a 1993 Winchester. But a late New Haven made Winchester will have been better than an early Ilion-made Remlin. "Winchester" is a brand name now, as is Marlin. The Miroku made "Winchester" is superior in for and finish to a Remington made Marlin, but you sure are paying for it.

Post '64 Marlins may have been a little better than a New Haven Winchester, but not so much to make a difference.

Pre-64, maybe Winchester quality was a bit better than Marlin?

So, design. I prefer the ease of cleaning and disassembly of the 336 and 1894. I shoot an 1894 in 45 Colt with black powder. It's pretty easy to clean. I have "Winchester" (Miroku) 1895 that I never ever want to disassemble again. I have a Rossi 92, not sure how far that deviates from a Winchester 92 action, but that's really no harder to clean than the Marlin 1894. The 336, 1894 and 1895 are all stronger than the 1873, which they post date. The Win 92 and 94 seem as strong as comparable Marlin actions. The 1886, 1895, and Model 71 are all quite robust actions. So, unless you want to mount a scope, that seems six and half a dozen.

I don't think you can really say that one is superior to the other. They are different. They have both had their ups and downs and they both exist now only as brand names. Two of my favorite rifles are my Marlin 1894 Cowboy Ltd in 45 Colt and my Winchester 1895 in 30-40.
 
DocRock said:
When?

A 1993 Marlin will have been better than a 1993 Winchester. But a late New Haven made Winchester will have been better than an early Ilion-made Remlin. "Winchester" is a brand name now, as is Marlin. The Miroku made "Winchester" is superior in for and finish to a Remington made Marlin, but you sure are paying for it.

Post '64 Marlins may have been a little better than a New Haven Winchester, but not so much to make a difference.

Pre-64, maybe Winchester quality was a bit better than Marlin?

So, design. I prefer the ease of cleaning and disassembly of the 336 and 1894. I shoot an 1894 in 45 Colt with black powder. It's pretty easy to clean. I have "Winchester" (Miroku) 1895 that I never ever want to disassemble again. I have a Rossi 92, not sure how far that deviates from a Winchester 92 action, but that's really no harder to clean than the Marlin 1894. The 336, 1894 and 1895 are all stronger than the 1873, which they post date. The Win 92 and 94 seem as strong as comparable Marlin actions. The 1886, 1895, and Model 71 are all quite robust actions. So, unless you want to mount a scope, that seems six and half a dozen.

I don't think you can really say that one is superior to the other. They are different. They have both had their ups and downs and they both exist now only as brand names. Two of my favorite rifles are my Marlin 1894 Cowboy Ltd in 45 Colt and my Winchester 1895 in 30-40.
Click to expand...
I *personally* want to avoid Winchester, simply because I prefer the Marlin's ease of disassembly and ease of mounting a scope. Nothing *wrong* w/ Winchester to me, I just dread ever disassembling one.
 
I know the OP was mainly interested in the lever guns, but man, Id take any Marlin .22 over any post WW2 Winchester rimfire. Even the worst M60 was better than a 190 Winchester......

Dont forget the "other" Winchester levergun, the 88. Pretty bad imo. And dont get me started on the M100…...ugh.
 
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NIGHTLORD40K said:
I know the OP was mainly interested in the lever guns, but man, Id take any Marlin .22 over any post WW2 Winchester rimfire. Even the worst M60 was better than a 190 Winchester......

Dont forget the "other" Winchester levergun, the 88. Pretty bad imo. And dont get me started on the M100…...ugh.
Click to expand...
*All* of JMB's designs weren't perfect...
 
I know many people worship at the pre-64 Model 70 and Model 94 altar. I’ve also heard from reputable sources that the last years of production of those models wasn’t that good due to worn out tooling and machinery. So I agree that it depends on the year made when it comes to quality.

I also believe comparisons between current Miroku Winchester and Remington Marlin production are apples to oranges, which is as should be do to the cost differential.

When it comes to reliability it again is determined by date of manufacture though from a design standpoint I’d shade towards Marlin.

There were a number of Winchesters owned by my uncles when I was growing up and I preferred them to Marlins-up until I bought a lever-action in the not too distant past. I’ll take a Marlin but if I were going to use irons only I might go Model 94. That ain’t gonna happen though unless a miracle occurs and my vision becomes as it was 45 years ago.
 
cdb1 said:
I know many people worship at the pre-64 Model 70 and Model 94 altar. I’ve also heard from reputable sources that the last years of production of those models wasn’t that good due to worn out tooling and machinery. So I agree that it depends on the year made when it comes to quality.

I also believe comparisons between current Miroku Winchester and Remington Marlin production are apples to oranges, which is as should be do to the cost differential.

When it comes to reliability it again is determined by date of manufacture though from a design standpoint I’d shade towards Marlin.

There were a number of Winchesters owned by my uncles when I was growing up and I preferred them to Marlins-up until I bought a lever-action in the not too distant past. I’ll take a Marlin but if I were going to use irons only I might go Model 94. That ain’t gonna happen though unless a miracle occurs and my vision becomes as it was 45 years ago.
Click to expand...
If I ever buy one, I'm putting either a Skinner peep on it, or a 1-4x optic....
 
Getting my first deer rifle years ago I compared Marlins to Henrys to Winchesters. For the price of the used Marlins on the rack, they were a better deal to me at the time compared to Winchester levers and Remington bolt actions. And I still have the same Marlin.
 
Winchester quality has been all over the place. The 94's made prior to 1964 are generally pretty good. Realistically the changes in 1964 were more specific and immediate with the model 70. Corners were cut on the 94 as well, but it took a few years for them to show up. I wouldn't be interested in any Winchester made after 1964 up to 1980.

Winchester was actually bought out by investors in 1980 and the 1980's and early 1990's rifles were much better. There were some design changes to the 94 during this time including the addition of a safety and angle eject to use with a scope. Some consider those changes to be a negative. Quality started to decline again in the late 90's until Winchester closed the New Haven factory in 2006. I wouldn't want one made after about 2000 or so. The closer you get to 2006, the poorer the quality.

I have no experience with the new Japanese made 94's, but by all accounts they are well made. With prices to reflect that.

Until Marlin was sold to Remington the Marlin lever guns were consistently good, they had very few problems. During Winchesters good years they are every bit as good, just a little different. But during Winchesters off years Marlin was the better choice.

I have no personal experience with the new Marlins, but by all accounts they had serious problems when they initially moved production. But things seem to have improved.

My personal preference is the 1970's and early 80's production Marlins. Marlin made subtle changes to their stock design and shape over the years. Those guns were made the way I like them. Not that they are really any better, I just like the style stock they used during those years.

I prefer to carry the Winchester. But would rather shoot the Marlin.
Click to expand...

Best of both worlds with this 1958 Marlin next to a 1958 Wichester.

levers 004.JPG

And I'll take all of my levers with straight stocks, even the Marlins. One reason I prefer the 1970s and 80's Marlins.

levers 002.JPG
 
jmr40 said:
Winchester quality has been all over the place. The 94's made prior to 1964 are generally pretty good. Realistically the changes in 1964 were more specific and immediate with the model 70. Corners were cut on the 94 as well, but it took a few years for them to show up. I wouldn't be interested in any Winchester made after 1964 up to 1980.

Winchester was actually bought out by investors in 1980 and the 1980's and early 1990's rifles were much better. There were some design changes to the 94 during this time including the addition of a safety and angle eject to use with a scope. Some consider those changes to be a negative. Quality started to decline again in the late 90's until Winchester closed the New Haven factory in 2006. I wouldn't want one made after about 2000 or so. The closer you get to 2006, the poorer the quality.

I have no experience with the new Japanese made 94's, but by all accounts they are well made. With prices to reflect that.

Until Marlin was sold to Remington the Marlin lever guns were consistently good, they had very few problems. During Winchesters good years they are every bit as good, just a little different. But during Winchesters off years Marlin was the better choice.

I have no personal experience with the new Marlins, but by all accounts they had serious problems when they initially moved production. But things seem to have improved.

My personal preference is the 1970's and early 80's production Marlins. Marlin made subtle changes to their stock design and shape over the years. Those guns were made the way I like them. Not that they are really any better, I just like the style stock they used during those years.



Best of both worlds with this 1958 Marlin next to a 1958 Wichester.

View attachment 923217

And I'll take all of my levers with straight stocks, even the Marlins. One reason I prefer the 1970s and 80's Marlins.

View attachment 923218
Click to expand...

I *think* the only production Marlin today to have a straight stock is the Texan. When/if I buy one, I'll look around at pawn shops for a JM Marlin... if I can't find one, I'll just carefully inspect a new Marlin.
 
So I'll give my experience,
I have a JM Marlin 336 straight grip Texan made in the 70's, cut down to 16",
and I have recently handled but not shot a 1994 centennial 16" Winchester 94.

The difference was pronounced. The Winchester rattled when cycled and had slop that my Marlin doesn't have. My Marlin has no slop in the lever side to side at any position in the cycle except at the very end, where it has just a little side to side play. The Winchester had significant side to side slop in the lever at every point during the cycle, even during lockup. The Winchester had several "hangups" in the cycle as well, which my Marlin doesn't. The finish of the Marlin, IMO, was better than that of the Winchester. The Winchester had an overpolished finish that looked and felt almost painted on. The Marlin isn't as "melted" as the 94 looked, but the flats of the receiver are the only surfaces that are finely polished and blued, and in those spots the bluing is much nicer than the Winchester.
I can't speak for accuracy or cleaning as I haven't taken either a 94 or a 336 down for cleaning or shot either for accuracy. My 336 is more of a restoration/art project as it was a Native American boat rifle used to kill seal and sea lion, and the prior owner started carving the stock and never finished, so I am going to try and find someone to finish the carvings...Whoever carved the stock was pretty good at it and I'm having trouble finding a carver that can match the quality and know where the original artist was going with the design....something about a wolf, the sun, and various tribal pictograms. Once its done it will be a really neat wall hanger with a very interesting local history.

I can't compare an early '94 as I haven't had the opportunity to play with one yet.

Now, I do have a first or second year Winchester 9422 that I think was made in the 70's, and it is just as precisely machined and assembled as my Marlin of the same era and has a much nicer finish overall, but that era of 9422's received a lot of care as Winchester was trying to make amends for the immediate post '64 drop in quality.

My 1950's Marlin 39a is just as well made as my 9422 but doesn't cycle as smoothly and isn't as well polished and as nicely blued, but it is much easier to take down for cleaning than a 9422. On the other hand, it appears to me that the the internal parts on the 39a are much more robust than the 9422. and I can say from experience if someone in your party knocks your 9422 off the bench and onto the floor, it can indeed break a certain internal part in half and require replacement, so I'm not as confident in the strength of the 9422 as compared to the 39a
 
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. !892 Winchesters are the most rugged Lever guns ever, quality was excellent thruout production , I have a 1892 rifle in 32-20 .The Miroku ones as made by Browning probably the best do to the quality of steel ect. I have a B92 in .44 mag and .357 . The 1894 Winchesters prior to 1964 are well made and with the calibers originally it was made in very trouble free., the ejection is positive but the action is not near as smooth IMHO as the 1892. I have a 1939 25-35 and a 1955 30-30 and had a John Wayne .32-40 trapper. . I have little experience with the 1873, or the 1886 action. I did have a ..348 Winchester a few years and it was smooth but very heavy bordering on cumbersome.The Winchester lever .22s are cute and nicely made, mostly . They are not very friendly to maintain .
Marlin 1893s showed superb workmanship and they worked well with all the calibers I have tried. They are a bit fragile in the fire control pieces.I think they are beautiful. The Marlin 39 series .22 s are the best .22 lever actions IMHO and most others too. The design seems superior and all I have seen even thru the 1990s seem well turned out. They are accurate too. I have a early 50s Mountie with no scope grooves and Ballard rifling and a 1960s one with scope grooves with 24" barrel that is incredibly accurate.Very easy to maintain, or even up grade ! The 336 is a great design and I have had them in .444 , .30-30 , .35 Remington .219 Zipper, .32 Special and 45-70 (yes I consider the current 1895 a "336" action. The earlier 30 series was also well made and smooth but the 336 is rugged. The Marlin 1894 has been rugged and reliable for my .357, .45Colt, and .32=20 and .25-20. I sold the latter three which were made in the 90s because of the lack of use I gave them and the increasing value of which made me profit and the lack of interest of my kids. The later cross bolt safety Marlins never really were as well finished as the earlier ones IMHO. My remaining Marlin levers are a first year of the .357 Carbine production 1979 1894C , a first year of production straight grip "1895" in .45-70 , and a 1964 .35 Remington Marauder Carbine . My son got my .444 Rifle from the 70s because it was his first deer rifle. A friend got the truly beautifully made late 1940s .32 special rifle , he passed a few years back.
Just my take on the subject. I currently have a Navy Arms 1873 .45 Colt rifle I got in a trade for my newer Rossi .357 Carbine plus a High Standard .22 Auto pistol. The owner got the Navy Arms .45Colt in the late 1980s because it was pretty and never shot it. He wanted a little Carbine and like the .357 Rossi and wanted a quality .22 pistol. I have sighted in the Navy Arms 73 Rifle with .50 rounds of cowboy ammo and it smoothed up and seems to work well. I will began to try it on SASS type shoots, I won't be speed demon shooting it tho.
 
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