Standard Pressure, Heavy .45 Colt Question

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Varminterror said:
Who makes the 320 WFN-GC? I did a cursory google search tonight but did not find it. If I can get some of the bullets, I would be able to run them through 1:24” 5.5” SRH and 2.75” Alaskan, and a 1:16” 4 5/8” New Vaquero.
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They were loaded by a member here.
 
JShirley said:
They were loaded by a member here.
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I followed that much, I meant to ask: who made the bullets being loaded? Can they be sourced, or were they home cast? The question was asked, how would they perform in a slow twist 454casull rather than a faster twist 45colt. If the bullet can be sourced, I can load and try some in my 454’s.
 
Montana bullet works makes a 325 grain bullet for the 45 colt.

murf.

p.s. grizzly cartridge co. also carries a 325 grain bullet. just checked the website and they do not offer a 325 hardcast anymore, only 300 and 335 grainers.
 
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JShirley said:
Montana makes a 315 -grain and a 325- grain (LYMAN 45265).....I think this 325-grain has a much wider meplat, but it's not GC.
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I vote the 325 Gr Lyman 45265......two real nice crimp grooves, although I don't think a gas check is needed for .45 Colt with the right alloy, they'll come in handy if you push them hard, but even then you can get by without them if everything is matched up. I used to shoot hard cast with no gas check in Ruger Only loads in a Blackhawk.

All of those have nice crimp grooves, while the ones I loaded do not.
 
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JShirley said:
Montana makes a 315 -grain and a 325- grain (LYMAN 452651). I think this 325-grain has a much wider meplat, but it's not GC.

The ones Walkalong has been shooting were loaded by a member who's no longer casting, from a Saeco mold, IIRC.
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at that velocity, a gas check won't be necessary. the 325 grain bullet I used here is plain based.

murf
 
When I first sorted through the pile of mixed .45 Colt brass (Some sized/decapped, some not, a few new ones, various headstamps), I noticed some had live primers in them, an old "domed" type I haven't seen in a long time. Upon further study today I found they are also balloon head cases. All WESTERN headstamp with a deep groove about .425 down from the case mouth. There were 3 or 4 other newer "WESTERN" cases with no groove and solid heads. I won't be using them.

The most common headstamps were RP & Winchester, 84 & 82 each, so I loaded the first 150 with those.

I also found two Hornady .454 Casull cases.
 
just got back from a three day camp trip and decided to see how much those "325 grain" bullets really weigh. in grains: 324.1, 320.6, 320.0, 321.3, 321.3, 319.9, 322.5, 321.9, 322.3, 321.9. all bullets measured 4.525" +/- .0005" in diameter.

so this bullet is really a 320 grain bullet. the avg. for these ten is 321.6, the extreme spread is 4.2. i see i am going to have to weigh the bullets if i want them all to be within a couple of grains of each other as that 324 grain bullet is way off.

so, walkalong, what do your bullets really weigh?

murf
 
The random few I weighed in the beginning were right at 320 Grs +/- on the GemPro250, which has since lost its mind.

I just weighed 5 on the Redding R2 and they were between 319 and 322 Grs.

I primed 200 more .45 Colt cases this evening.
 
i am pleasantly surprised that the my bullets are closer to 320 than 325 grains.

what load did you settle on here? i'm assuming it does not use balloon head cases. i just saw your post with the pic of the box-o-cartridges and the sticky. i'm assuming wlp primers and non-balloon head cases.

murf
 
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i'll add that using this load in a colt single action army revolver is not a good idea, imo. the load is light enough for most any other revolver (except saa replicas) as the max pressure of this load is probably just over the 14,000 psi saami max pressure limit.

this load should fit in all 45 colt chambered revolvers. the shortest cylinder length of all the various revolvers is the colt saa at 1.607". the walkalong load is 1.568" long, the rim thickness is .060". subtract and the balance of the case in the cylinder is 1.508". plenty of room. the n-frame s&w revolver length is 1.702 (my model 29 cylinder length). the cylinder dimensions of some other revolvers are in a chart from this article: https://gunblast.com/Ruger-NewVaquero.htm .

notice that the colt saa also has the smallest cylinder diameter. this is why, in my opinion, you should not shoot this load in the colt saa and clones. everything else should be fine.

luck,

murf
 
Varminterror said:
Who makes the 320 WFN-GC? I did a cursory google search tonight but did not find it. If I can get some of the bullets, I would be able to run them through 1:24” 5.5” SRH and 2.75” Alaskan, and a 1:16” 4 5/8” New Vaquero.
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" i did"

Its a saeco mould.

These were originally slated for insanity, and have been bent to reality
 
blarby said:
These were originally slated for insanity, and have been bent to reality
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That's a bumpy road I've traveled a couple more times than I should have. The loads I put through a Taurus gaucho (45 colt) would have made elmer Keith cringe, that was about 15 years ago and I've since gotten wiser and more skittish . luckily I survived this far with all my fingers and toes , exactly as ugly as I started so life is good. If I'm loading on the ragged edge of sanity I use a gun that simply won't care, when I get close to that guns maximum I go slow and careful. My hot rodding cartridge days are behind me, but some of my 454 casull loads are pretty warm, even by casull standards - but still well on the safe side.
 
blarby said:
" i did"

Its a saeco mould.
Click to expand...

Gotcha. If they were a commercially available bullet, I’d pick some up to replicate the loads @Walkalong is shooting to test in slower twist 454’s to expand the database now found in this thread, but I gave up casting a long time ago, and shudder to think of going back.

These are such specific bullets - with the itty bitty crimp grooves, I’d not be sure I’d think results with a different commercial 325grn pill would be appropriately representative?
 
Varminterror said:
Gotcha. If they were a commercially available bullet, I’d pick some up to replicate the loads @Walkalong is shooting to test in slower twist 454’s to expand the database now found in this thread, but I gave up casting a long time ago, and shudder to think of going back.

These are such specific bullets - with the itty bitty crimp grooves, I’d not be sure I’d think results with a different commercial 325grn pill would be appropriately representative?
Click to expand...
Varminterror said:
Gotcha. If they were a commercially available bullet, I’d pick some up to replicate the loads @Walkalong is shooting to test in slower twist 454’s to expand the database now found in this thread, but I gave up casting a long time ago, and shudder to think of going back.

I do not think you will find a commercialized projectile of this nature.

It took not only a tour de force in metallurgy,, and over $500usd in material and equipment to make them. We used 3 remaining pigs of linotype from the local paper in their manufacture

They are precisely calibrated projectiles geared to a specific purpose, that purpose has been re-evaluated, and the projectiles still exist. They are being repurposed for actual use, which i enjoy, but they are near the pinnacle of my projectile production, and cannot be reproduced: even the original alchemy is lost to time.


they are quite unique, not only in materials and construction,, but intent.

John wanted the absolute best.

Its a saeco 320wfngc, a star sizer, black magic high test rifle bullet lube, 24bhn base alloy, and brass 60's Lyman checks

Unlikely to.be reproduced, but if you need assistance, this is a magical bullet


There they sit!

These are such specific bullets - with the itty bitty crimp grooves, I’d not be sure I’d think results with a different commercial 325grn pill would be appropriately representative?
Click to expand...
 
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@blarby - that was largely my expectation, even before your description of all of the extra effort into this particular bullet design. I could grab some Montana 325’s and test a low velocity load of BE-86, but would it really be representative of these bullets? I suppose MOST 325’s should be longer and less stable than those you produced, so maybe it would still be representative info?
 
Ok, my total two cents on heavy lead !

Just from my experience casting, loading, and shooting it from 600 to 5200fps:

In pistols: a 30g pill will kill ya dead as a door nail at 500fps

A 535gr WFNGCXPD At .459 on top of 124 grs.of.FFFF will rip a bison in..

Half.

That's 45k impact pounds at 2k yards. That would bury your late model high strength steel car. Bury.


Lead is great for projectiles.

It fails either due to metallurgical incongruity in casting, blast heat at 35kpsi destroying obturation at ignition....
OR SAILS LIKE FARIE MAGIC

But if you want accuracy over 800fps in a rifled barel:

Use a check

Use hard hot rifle lube


YMMV
 
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