technically it's a pistol...

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Michael Tinker Pearce

Michael Tinker Pearce

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So this happened. Hybrid Polymer lower (from an 80% kit) with a Foxtrot Mike 5" M-lock Glock compatible upper with flash-can, Aero Precision Lower parts kit, Timney Triggers Impact single-stage trigger and ambidextrous safety, Sylvan Glock magwell adapter, Angstad ares 5.4oz. 9mm recoil assembly, Bushnell TRS25 Red Dot sight, SBa3 brace and ETS Polymer magazines. The A2 grip is temporary; a Magpul grip is on the way. I researched my parts carefully and made sure all the various bits would work and play well together, so naturally when I got it to the range I expected it to not work. To my utter astonishment it performed flawlessly.

Standing unsupported at 25 yards, 1 shot per second- Had a couple flyers before I realized the finger-tight optics riser was loosening up... a quick application of a screwdriver tightened thing right up.
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Still had ammo after sighting in and testing, so i did a fast string of double-taps at ten yards-
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I built this as a fun/home defense gun; basically a PDW. More than a pistol, less than a carbine. 9mm because it's cheap, I'm swimming in brass and I can shoot it at the indoor range where I am a member. Nothing tacti-cool here; this is a straight-up functional build using quality- but not over-priced or flashy- components. If it wasn't so much fun I'd think I'd built an appliance... but it is great fun, and continues to be reliable it'll be my new 'nightstand gun.'
 
From just looking at the firearm pictures, especially with the brace extended, the "pistol" looks more like a Short Barrel Rifle. Please show us pics of you shooting the weapon show we don't end up in a loop arguing wither this is a handgun or a NFA item.
 
whm1974 said:
From just looking at the firearm pictures, especially with the brace extended, the "pistol" looks more like a Short Barrel Rifle. Please show us pics of you shooting the weapon show we don't end up in a loop arguing wither this is a handgun or a NFA item.
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Doesn't matter how you hold it. The back part is an arm brace, you can Velcro it to your arm for extra support if you want, it's a pistol.
 
That's a nice looking pistol you have there. All the elements work together and it turned out great. I like a low-angle grip on a pistol, so I hope the grip you have coming is of the K2 variety.

Regardless, nice build. Thanks for the pics and narrative.
 
Obturation said:
Doesn't matter how you hold it. The back part is an arm brace, you can Velcro it to your arm for extra support if you want, it's a pistol.
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I can see how it clamps to your forearm and Velcro straps, but can you place the back end to your shoulder? If you can't, then I'll stop mentioning that this device looks like a shoulder stock...
 
whm1974 said:
I can see how it clamps to your forearm and Velcro straps, but can you place the back end to your shoulder? If you can't, then I'll stop mentioning that this device looks like a shoulder stock...
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A pistol brace is not designed to be placed against your shoulder. BUT it can be placed against your shoulder and shot. The design intent is the part that makes it legal. How the end-user uses it does not make any legal difference to the ATF's current interpretation of the law. (this has not always been the case, got to stay informed.)

My "technically it's a pistol" is currently one of my most fun and most used firearms I currently have.
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whm1974 said:
I can see how it clamps to your forearm and Velcro straps, but can you place the back end to your shoulder? If you can't, then I'll stop mentioning that this device looks like a shoulder stock...
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The BATFE is not in the business of telling people how to hold their firearms. Nor do you want them in that business.

That attachment to the buffer tube is an arm brace. That's all it will ever be. You could use it to dig a hole but that wouldn't magically turn it into a shovel.

If someone wants to use a shovel to scoop water from a bucket that's their business. It doesn't change the fact that it's a shovel.

If someone places their arm brace against their body it doesn't change that arm brace into anything other than an arm brace.
 
Not your most elegant build, but a great example of what disparate parts can be thrown together in the AR platform, and a great little HD/PDW AR!

What, no handmade wood grip? The Magpul is an excellent choice, then.

whm1974 said:
From just looking at the firearm pictures, especially with the brace extended, the "pistol" looks more like a Short Barrel Rifle. Please show us pics of you shooting the weapon show we don't end up in a loop arguing wither this is a handgun or a NFA item.
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Will you give it a rest? This isn't the first thread you've pulled this in. It is a pistol. That is an arm brace. If you don't like them, don't own one. United we stand. Divided we fall. Don't be that division.
 
I thought about building one but I can't bring myself to spend rifle caliber money on a pistol caliber AR... Matter of fact, PCC AR15s usually cost more to build than 223/556 ARs... I sure wouldn't mind owning one though.
 
edwardware said:
It'll be a one-sided argument, you with yourself.
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It’s like arguing that a lawn mower is an automobile. It can absolutely be driven on the road for long trips, but it was really designed to use on the yard and drive back and forth all day, so it was not an automobile by design. The pistol brace is exactly that, a brace to be used on a pistol. Sure I can be put against a shoulder, so can a plain pistol buffer tube, but it was designed to help stabilize a pistol. That’s the purpose, and published ATF interpretation supports that.
 
entropy said:
Not your most elegant build, but a great example of what disparate parts can be thrown together in the AR platform, and a great little HD/PDW AR!

What, no handmade wood grip? The Magpul is an excellent choice, then.


Will you give it a rest? This isn't the first thread you've pulled this in. It is a pistol. That is an arm brace. If you don't like them, don't own one. United we stand. Divided we fall. Don't be that division.
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I am not trying to be divisive here. I did see one of these for a 1911 type pistol back during the late 80's, maybe 1990 in my teens. But it was a straight rod with a spring loaded clamp that held on to maybe half the owner's forearm. I only seen this sort of thing one time and it was custom made.
 
whm1974 said:
I am not trying to be divisive here. I did see one of these for a 1911 type pistol back during the late 80's, maybe 1990 in my teens. But it was a straight rod with a spring loaded clamp that held on to maybe half the owner's forearm. I only seen this sort of thing one time and it was custom made.
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Sounds very European. They have length requirements which make them put rods out the back, often with weights on them to help balance the pistol. I have very seriously considered doing something similar with one of my revolvers, and it would absolutely help in the stability department. I just found a 10/22 barrel band which will help with another issue on that one, and I can solve another problem by going that route so it may seriously happen rather soon, but rearward rods, usually from the bass of the grip are a common thing in some areas.

Like this... UK legal 1911 which kinda meets your description. BDF87DF0-D100-413B-89F5-D4AF7A9BC24E.jpeg
 
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whm1974 said:
I am not trying to be divisive here. I did see one of these for a 1911 type pistol back during the late 80's, maybe 1990 in my teens. But it was a straight rod with a spring loaded clamp that held on to maybe half the owner's forearm. I only seen this sort of thing one time and it was custom made.
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SBa3.jpg
Here's my AR pistol, and there are plenty of threads on THR showing them. The device you describe in post #16, and the one West Kentucky shows us in post #17, sound kind of James Bond-ish.
The SBa3 that is on Tinkers 9mm, and on my .223 above, opens on the bottom, and has Velcro that wraps around it and the forearm. To install it is sufficient, it need not be used in the manner it was designed. (I did try it out that way, though. Awkward, but it works.) Braces are here to stay.
 
WestKentucky said:
Sounds very European. They have length requirements which make them put rods out the back, often with weights on them to help balance the pistol. I have very seriously considered doing something similar with one of my revolvers, and it would absolutely help in the stability department. I just found a 10/22 barrel band which will help with another issue on that one, and I can solve another problem by going that route so it may seriously happen rather soon, but rearward rods, usually from the bass of the grip are a common thing in some areas.

Like this... UK legal 1911 which kinda meets your description.View attachment 924929
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What makes this pistol legal in the UK? I thought those guys banned civilian ownership of handguns outright?

Anyway the brace I've remembered was attached to the 1911 where the grip safety would be.
 
Here's my only AR-pattern gun - a 9mm pistol I finished earlier this month and have had to the range a couple of times - very fun to shoot standing at 25 yards. I bought a complete Foxtrot Mike 8.5" pistol ($702 at Brownell's) and added:

1) Samson Mfg fixed front sight set (HK style), fixed same-plane rear sight
2) Magpul MOE-K pistol grip
3) Elftmann Tactical Push-Button Safety
4) KynSHOT RB5007 hydraulic buffer
5) Gear Head Works Tailhook Mod 1 brace
6) Nightstrike Diamondback Angled foregrip FM9_right side_5-27-20.JPG
 
That's a nice looking build there. Before you change that grip, try knocking that bump off and then cutting off the bottom where the checkering starts. It makes for a nice slim and handy grip for a small AR pistol.

Yep, I love my AR pistols...https://photos.app.goo.gl/x5ijeBSjXwVxH45LA

The one on the left is a 5.5" 9mm build. It makes the 11.3" 5.56 build on the right look like it's full sized.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
My daughter is almost done with her AR9- gotta admit Im pretty jealous. She went with a 16" barrel, though, as one of her build requirements was it had to be capable of accepting a bayonet and a bipod.

And I have just enough spare parts left over to think about starting one of my own......
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Bayonet and a bipod? She builds ARs like I do.
 
whm1974 said:
What makes this pistol legal in the UK? I thought those guys banned civilian ownership of handguns outright?
Click to expand...

Its a workaround the OAL restrictions. They weld a rod to the gun and since its now 30” long and not 8”, boom, now its not a “pistol”
 
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