Best bullet for 5.56 self defense?

Speer 62gr Gold Dots.

Bfh_auto said:

I strongly disagree with that. 55 grain blitz kings have accounted for 6 deer per season by my nieces for the last 7 years. Not one of them got away.

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You can disagree all you want, but if you called Sierra about their Blitz Kings or Hornady about their VMax bullets and would they be a good choice for deer size game or duty use I am 100% sure they would direct you to a bullet designed to penetrate a lot deeper.

Glad you are not losing deer with these rounds, and people have lost game with proper bullets for whatever reason, but the fact is that these bullets are NOT proper for this type of purpose.

They are designed to explosively fragment on impact and not penetrate...this is the opposite of the design for a SD or large game hunting round.

Buzznrose said:

You can disagree all you want, but if you called Sierra about their Blitz Kings or Hornady about their VMax bullets and would they be a good choice for deer size game or duty use I am 100% sure they would direct you to a bullet designed to penetrate a lot deeper.

Glad you are not losing deer with these rounds, and people have lost game with proper bullets for whatever reason, but the fact is that these bullets are NOT proper for this type of purpose.

They are designed to explosively fragment on impact and not penetrate...this is the opposite of the design for a SD or large game hunting round.

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That's why this is a forum. I have my opinion based off my experience. You have yours.
However, I recommended 55 grain soft points in my original post. Because they give a better margin for error.

Whatever you can get your hands on the most of. The ammo you have is infinitely better than the ammo you don’t. Buy a lot of something and practice a lot with it. That’ll go a long way towards SD.

JShirley said:

MK 262 fragments on hitting the target, but still usually has 1 or more fragments that penetrate more deeply than varmint rounds.

Here is an article on the subject of defensive 5.56mm/.223 ammo. 75 and 77 OTM rounds are the first choice if barrier penetration is NOT desired AND you have at least a 1 in 9" twist.

I will say that most .223 or 5.56mm loads should work fine, with the exception of varmint loads (unless possibly out of a very short AR "pistol" or SBR), or M855 out of short barrels.

John

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I didn’t see info about thin jacketed, light weight varmint bullets in the .pdf you linked. Was that in one of the links in the .pdf?

BSW

entropy said:

I thought that way too, until the Minneapolis Riots. Fortunately, my hunting round is exactly what you describe. The AR is also kept nearby with my .45 ACP and 12 ga.

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I have no qualms using my AR, don't get me wrong. I live in a town of 700 more than an hour away from any "city" above 20,000, so riots aren't QUITE as big of a concern for me. That being said, my AR sits right next to the Mossberg in the safe so its just as available, haha.

I have no qualms using my V-Max in the meantime, just like the idea of soft points a little more after watching some ballistic gel tests.

There is no "Best" home defense round. There are many that work well and each have their pros and cons. Do you want better barrier penetration, fragmentation, a mushrooming bonded bullet, etc..? Do some research and decide which attributes fit your wants and needs.

In the end it's still a rifle round. Even the "bad" choices are still pretty darn effective.

That being said, I would avoid using FMJ ammo. It's too inconsistent. It will usually fragment at CQB ranges but you'll still get some rounds that don't upset and just punch right through.

This will continue without end. A new brand comes out and suddenly IT becomes the “most destructive ammunition”, capable of traumatic tissue damage while penetrating at least 12” of ballistic gel. Of course this is all verified by DIY Interwebs, Ballistic Wound Engineers.

My thoughts are that being hit by ANY 223 round is not going to be an especially pleasant experience. In fact, I believe it would be just about the worst day of the individuals life. That said, given a choice....I would prefer using one of my reloads with any bullet ABOVE 60gr, in the Ballistic Tip/Hollow Point variety.

C-Grunt said, " It's too inconsistent. It will usually fragment at CQB ranges but you'll still get some rounds that don't upset and just punch right through.

I have been waiting years, decades, almost half a century for someone to notice that and say it out loud...

I’m not worried about lack of penetration with lightweight varmint bullets because I’ve shot coyotes and feral dogs using them. If a persons arm is absorbing the bullet and preventing it from entering the torso they aren’t going to be using that arm for anything.

The local police use AR-15 patrol rifles. Their general experience is that one shot stops the action, with the shootee usually not surviving.

I’d generalize and say that torso hits with anything other than FMJ are going to stop a fight. FMJs would ‘usually’ stop a fight with one hit but not as reliably as expanding bullets.

BSW

JShirley said:

I'm going to say that using a lightweight varmint bullets is about like using shotgun birdshot for home defense. Any gun is better than none, but if one is going to take the time and thought to make a deliberate choice for home defense, I would like something that can expect to penetrate more than 6 in. There's a whole lot of difference between a 40-lb 'yote and an aggressor.

if you want to test it out, just get some milk jugs and fill them full of water. If you can't penetrate over three milk jugs full of water, your round doesn't have enough penetration for SD. OTOH, if you penetrate more than 5, that's too much.

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In my experience the lightweight varmint loads remove a considerable amount of flesh from animals.

The biggest difference between pistols or shotguns vs rifles like .223 isn’t total energy, it’s velocity. The higher velocity bullets that actually transfer energy to an animal cause ripping and tearing or flesh away from the actual crush track of the bullet. Not a lot will survive that affect.

BSW

Balrog said:

but what 55g bullets are better than M193?

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JShirley said:

What works well on deer will work well against human threats

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Absolutely agree.

The simple answer is to select 223 ammo with these features or names:

Nosler Partition, Barnes Copper , Federal Trophy Copper, anything bonded( Federal Fusion / Speer Gold Dot / Remington Bonded / Nosler BSB), even simple JSP.


Below are the LE websites for Hornady, Remington, and Speer. They have great information, even if some only sell to LEOs. Consider Hornady's LE ammo offerings. Training means cheap bullets - FMJ or SP. Precision means a match bullet. Urban means a V-max. Barrier means a bonded bullet. Patrol is a GMX (their version of a tipped copper bullet.)

The best part is that every one made for duty use has a gel test so you can choose for yourself:
https://www.hornadyle.com/rifle-ammunition/#!/

Ok, this site is a little wanting for info, but it is something:
https://www.remingtondefense.com/ammunition/rifle/

Speer doesn't have many offerings, but all the gel test info is there:
https://le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/speer/rifle/default.aspx

Here's a 55gr SP for a gel test comparison:


The information on the ammo marketed to LEO's gives a great idea about the desired characteristics of defensive 223/556 ammo. Again, even if we may not be able to buy the box that they specifically market to LEO's in some cases, consumers can typically buy the same kinds of ammo in a box marketed for 223 deer hunting.

JShirley said:

I'm going to say that using a lightweight varmint bullets is about like using shotgun birdshot for home defense.

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Wait..what? Did you compare a high velocity rifle round to birdshot? There are several loads of 223 using a 40gr Ballistic Tip bullet with muzzle velocities at or greater than 3800FPS. If that were to hit a human body, the tissue damage would be horrifying. Unless of course you were comparing to a 12g bird shot wound at POINT BLANK condition?? If that’s what you meant...than sure..I agree, LOL!

My choice for my AR HD rifle is 62gr Nosler Defense. At the very least the bad guy is going to take a knee, put a hand up and ask me to STOP!

Balrog said:

Best bullet for 5.56 self defense?

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Hornary 75gr BTHP

if that doesn’t work, the other 29 will.

I just ordered 120 rounds of this. Read great reviews as far as gel tests and accuracy so seemed worth a shot. Good price for OTM ammo, especially in the current market. That'll give me the OTM for home defense and Vmax for the 'yotes, along with all the FMJ I have saved up (not much to most, but a decent amount to me).

https://www.sgammo.com/product/223-...m-hollow-point-dhs-purple-training-ammo-winch

Golfanaticshooter said:

My choice for my AR HD rifle is 62gr Nosler Defense. At the very least the bad guy is going to take a knee, put a hand up and ask me to STOP!View attachment 925521

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LOL! Yeah.., right. “Ouch..That hurts! Could ya stop?What is that, BIRD SHOT you’re peppering me with!?Oh wait.... is that my CHESTICLES all torn open...is that my LUNG??” LOL!

JShirley said:

I'm going to say that using a lightweight varmint bullets is about like using shotgun birdshot for home defense.

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Except birdshot even at contact distance does not introduce hydrostatic shock. All a V-max or similar bullet has to do is punch through a rib or the sternum at SD distances, and instant jelly. They do it on deer at 200 yards, don't know why they wouldn't do it on a human at 10 yards, even with the thicker bones.
I understand the attempted analogy, but it isn't quite that bad.

Thanks for posting that link BigBL87, I just ordered some also!

Balrog said:

I typically just load my AR with M193 55g FMJ, but was wondering if I want to switch to a different bullet that might be more effective. I think I want to stay with a 55g bullet if possible, at M193 velocity, so point of impact would be hopefully about the same.

Looks like most ammo sources are pretty dry right now, but what 55g bullets are better than M193?

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Doesn't this depend on what SD scenario you need the AR for? Noise upstairs in middle of night, live in an apartment or pretty 'soft' house? Or live in the country and see a bunch of yahoos in a pickup truck bent on breaking down your gate and stealing your (whatever)???

More effective dong what?