Reloading 45-70

Status
Not open for further replies.
wmgeorge

wmgeorge

Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2017
Messages
560
Selling off all my 45ACP stuff and plan to do a little reloading for my Lyman 45-70 Sharps. I have Lee dies and press for 44 Magnum but I see the Lee dies for 45-70 are plain steel and do not include the Factory crimp die. So do I need it, since this will be perhaps 50 rounds per year thing and perhaps black powder?
 
The 45-70 may be a straight wall case, but it has a very slight taper. I don't know that anyone makes a carbide die set for the cartridge.
If you are going to load black, there are several books to have a look at. "Loading Cartridges for the Original 45 - 70 Springfield Rifle and Carbine" by Pat Wolf, "Forty Years with the 45 - 70", and" Loading the Black Powder Rifle Cartridge", both by Paul Matthews. There are others, but these are all good reading.
Good luck, and be safe.
 
Yes, no carbide dies for .45-70. If you are loading cast bullets, spend the money and get something like the RCBS Cowboy dies, which include a flare die for cast bullets. Loading for a single-shot, it's not even necessary to crimp your cartridges, let alone a FCD. I use a taper crimp die on mine, that's just my personal preference to bump the case mouth in a tad. I've never loaded black powder... there is too much that goes into the process, unless you just have to. Personally, I would recommend a powder like IMR4198 or AA5744, either one of those will get you where you need to go with the .45-70.
 
wmgeorge said:
Selling off all my 45ACP stuff and plan to do a little reloading for my Lyman 45-70 Sharps. I have Lee dies and press for 44 Magnum but I see the Lee dies for 45-70 are plain steel and do not include the Factory crimp die. So do I need it, since this will be perhaps 50 rounds per year thing and perhaps black powder?
Click to expand...

Here is another option especially if you are going to load blackpowder and use Lee dies. Using the various neck expanders were absolutely necessary to get my original 1873 trapdoor shooting correctly and the compression plug if I wanted to shoot 70 grains of blackpowder.
Your Sharps probably has a .458 bore but those neck expanders from Wolf IMHO are a must with lead bullets.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/1178/1
 
Last edited:
Charlie98 said:
Yes, no carbide dies for .45-70. If you are loading cast bullets, spend the money and get something like the RCBS Cowboy dies, which include a flare die for cast bullets. Loading for a single-shot, it's not even necessary to crimp your cartridges, let alone a FCD. I use a taper crimp die on mine, that's just my personal preference to bump the case mouth in a tad. I've never loaded black powder... there is too much that goes into the process, unless you just have to. Personally, I would recommend a powder like IMR4198 or AA5744, either one of those will get you where you need to go with the .45-70.
Click to expand...


Can you explain what the RCBS Cowboy flare die does differently than the expander die that you get with a normal 3-die set?
 
4570Tom said:
Can you explain what the RCBS Cowboy flare die does differently than the expander die that you get with a normal 3-die set?
Click to expand...

A normal expander only opens the case mouth enough to insert and seat a jacketed bullet. Cast bullets will shave if you try to ram them down into a case without enough flare. Further, cast bullets are sometimes a bit larger than an equivalent jacketed bullet. What the Cowboy flare die does is actually expand the entire case neck to allow a cast bullet to seat without shaving or deformation. In the absence of a 'Cowboy' die, per se, you would need something like a Lyman M-die, which does the same thing. I use the M-die for my .30 and .348 cast bullet cartridges, for example, where an RCBS 'Cowboy' set is not available.
 
Charlie98 said:
A normal expander only opens the case mouth enough to insert and seat a jacketed bullet. Cast bullets will shave if you try to ram them down into a case without enough flare. Further, cast bullets are sometimes a bit larger than an equivalent jacketed bullet. What the Cowboy flare die does is actually expand the entire case neck to allow a cast bullet to seat without shaving or deformation. In the absence of a 'Cowboy' die, per se, you would need something like a Lyman M-die, which does the same thing. I use the M-die for my .30 and .348 cast bullet cartridges, for example, where an RCBS 'Cowboy' set is not available.
Click to expand...

That makes sense--thanks for the explanation.
 
But it only "shaves" the part going in the case, correct? So the rest is full 458 and I am thinking the lead will expand a bit when pushed though the bore. I have loaded lead for years and never had that issue.
 
wmgeorge said:
But it only "shaves" the part going in the case, correct? So the rest is full 458 and I am thinking the lead will expand a bit when pushed though the bore. I have loaded lead for years and never had that issue.
Click to expand...

Load a few dummy rounds then use a bullet puller and measure the bullets. You might be surprised.
 
It turns out that there is a lot to learn about loading the 45-70, and the history is fascinating too. Many of the old BP cases were balloon head cases that offered greater capacity than modern cases. (If you find some old balloon head cases keep them, but don't reload them since they are inherently weak.) You may be able to get 70 grains of black into a Winchester case with pretty heavy compression, but probably not any others. As Reeferman said, you'll need a special compression die to do that since the 400 grain bullet is unlikely to get that job done. Enjoy the discovery and adventure.
 
I'd love to cast my own but the economics are not there. Whats a good source for cast lead 45-70?
 
wmgeorge said:
I'd love to cast my own but the economics are not there. Whats a good source for cast lead 45-70?
Click to expand...

What level of 45/70 are you wanting to load? If you are going to load at trapdoor level with blackpowder then the softest lead bullet about .459 diameter in the 405 to 500 grain range.
You haven’t said if you have blackpowder experience as that makes difference when selecting bullet.
If however you are going to shoot smokeless and I’m assuming the Sharps you have is modern with a .458 bore then a jacketed or plated bullet from 300 or 405 grain range should work well.
 
I just can't see paying nearly $2 per shot when I already have a press and everything except the bullets and primers. I have worked on two Thermo Kings ever and that was enough. I did commercial HVAC/R for 30 years or so and made darn good money.
 
wmgeorge said:
I just can't see paying nearly $2 per shot when I already have a press and everything except the bullets and primers. I have worked on two Thermo Kings ever and that was enough. I did commercial HVAC/R for 30 years or so and made darn good money.
Click to expand...

My blackpowder 45/70 rounds cost about .40 cents a round depending on bullet size and powder charge. Transport reefers are getting pretty advanced now. When you think about it they are pretty amazing. One day they are keeping tomatoes at 50 degrees F In -35 degree ambient and the next they are keeping ice cream at -20 in 100 degree F ambient while going down the road.
 
Reeferman said:
My blackpowder 45/70 rounds cost about .40 cents a round depending on bullet size and powder charge. Transport reefers are getting pretty advanced now. When you think about it they are pretty amazing. One day they are keeping tomatoes at 50 degrees F In -35 degree ambient and the next they are keeping ice cream at -20 in 100 degree F ambient while going down the road.
Click to expand...

Much of that has to do with the advanced build characteristics of modern vans, too...
 
I ordered a bunch of bullets from Montana Bullet a few years ago... .30's, .348's, and .45-70's... and then it hit me...

RQKIqdwl.jpg

The .30's were all shoved in the back of the plane... flying coach. The .348's, with their gas checks, got the wider seats and more legroom in business class. But those big .45's... they got the High Roller seats up in First Class... with booze and T-bones.
 
Jim Watson said:
What quality? You can buy bulk bullets from MBC or other machine caster. (What accuracy do you see, ms?) or you can pay match prices for match bullets from Montana Bullet Works. One of many...
https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/45-lbt-410gr-fn-pb/
Click to expand...
Their quality is great. Accuracy I can not really say as I am using vernier sights at 200 yards when developing loads. The bullet is a 22lr you see that I am holding. I'm using smokeless powder on this load Accurate 5744 and these are 3 different 2 shot groups. Im using a 405gr .459 cast bullets and the two by themselves are black powder with a 535 postell bullet which I cast myself. So you decide if they are accurate. This is out of my Pedersoli Sharps. Oops my bad the bullet I am holding is a 22 magnum.
TouGMoWl.jpg
 
Last edited:
Reloaded 45-70 for many years just with a simple Lee Loader kit. Would use a socket to expand the case mouth etc... Very simple and easy to do!

 
I went with the ACME coated 405 Gr FP for midrange (.45-70ish level) loads in .458 Winchester using AA 5744, but the same bullet is available from more than one vendor, as @Jim Watson posted.

Looks like the same bullet @ms6852 linked to, just a different vendor. Same Magma mold is my guess.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
Reloading 45-70 Government
Replies
14
Views
2K
flashhole
F
T
  • Locked
If you had 800 dollars. * Updated *
Replies
23
Views
691
dbarnhart
D
C
  • Locked
SS Press for FCD and 45-70?
Replies
2
Views
467
HSMITH
H
B
  • Locked
45-70, Hornady dies and lever guns.
Replies
4
Views
1K
Don McDowell
Don McDowell
S
  • Locked
Loading 45/70, Lee FCD Denting Cases
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
MCMXI
MCMXI
Back
Top