It seems there's No Love for 45 Auto in the Woods???

horsey300 said:

No game with any hap, but various media, and the drama was lacking in the trauma. I believe we should be able to have the best of both worlds lol. Competition bullets often serve multiple purposes well, but the bullets I use for prairie dogs are not often the ones I use for larger game, perhaps the .45's larger meplat would aid in wounding, but from my experience, they are not my best of both worlds bullet.

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I havent shot the HAPs, but from my understanding they lack the internal skiving that promotes expansion on the XTPS. Ive also only shot XTPs at velocities far in excess of what they are supposed to be used for. Expansion there tends to be pretty dramatic.
The note able exception are the .454 240xtp mags from my muzzle loader. Those were right in the expected velocity range, and showed little to no expansion on our goats, and one axis deer....even going end to end thru a goat, and breaking both shoulders on a small spike....That may simply be the way those bullets work, or they may need a harder target to open up.

98s1lightning said:

My understanding is the HAP is physically/dimensionally identical weight for weight to XTP without the "cuts" that aid in "petals" opening or mushrooming.

This is why I chose the HAP. If your trying to bust through bone, you don't want expansion. A 45 is going to put a big hole anyway....

There's plenty of XTP data published...

Aside from 10mm, I wouldn't rely on any service auto caliber, examples 9mm, 40 S&W, 45cap to actually penetrate deep into a "large" animal, in excess of 100 pounds through bone. I have experience with finding jackets from ball ammo in the backstop bank even setting right on top of the dirt. I didn't want a bullet that was soft and easily shed it's jacket. I haven't done too much shooting with these HAP but from what little I have they seem promising. I guess my point is I don't want to shoot an expanding bullet that can open and stop/not make it to a brain if somethings pissed at me. The compact auto WILL be with me instead of a bulky revolver or something that wasn't easy to take because we were choring or what not.......

It's a balance of decisions.

And HK don't make a 10mm, I won't run a push button mag gun, gotta have paddle drop (I've had too many occasions a 1911 mag drops out by accidental push of button working or during physical activities, or sitting.) And its got to have the LEM trigger. So HK 45 model it is!

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I’ll go one further and not recommend XTPs. Unreliable in my experience and they’re not bonded.

98s1lightning said:

So what do you recommend MAXP

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For 454 casull @MaxP recommended swift A frames for my shooting. He may have other recommendations based on other factors for you. I've loaded a ladder of 50 A frames but haven't tested yet...waiting.

I really do like A-frames but with a round as velocity stunted as the .45 acp I would rather have something that will go deep as it already has diameter. So it doesn’t really need to expand. A hardcast load or a monolithic solid would get it done.

98s1lightning said:

What do you think about them 190gr Lehigh defense solids.

I'm not crazy about them but if they work they work. I'd be more apt to try if they weren't so expensive.

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Not a huge fan of the Phillips head screwdriver LeHighs. I prefer their flat-nosed profiles.

When I moved to Maine I asked a friend if .45ACP was a good cartridge for bear defense and he said "Yes, who said it wasn't". I been carrying a G21 in the field for a long time, have not shot a bear, but shot a couple of hogs in Texas, and they went right down.

This video is pretty good demonstration of what a 45 can do. I mainly carried hard ball over the years but now have Critical Duty 220gr Plus P in the mag.

My preferred "45 auto" for bears is a 450 Bushmaster

I got the 10mm bug last year

98s1lightning said:

Maneiak do you recall what 45 bullets you hit the hogs with and what kind of penetration you got? Up close and personal or what distance?

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Winchester white box 230 hard ball, and yes they were up close, like 15 yards, maybe 20. One of the hogs was hit in the side of the head, and it did not exit, the other was shot in the front shoulders and exited.

I'll try to lighten this thread up a bit. It seems to have had a few tense exchanges.

As a woods gun, as the OP asked, I think it is a great choice. I have used a Gold Cup to chase rabbits. I have yet to hit one running but that never stopped me from trying. You have to have this special place that has both rabbits and good back stops. Like hills or better yet in a valley. I had a place I used to go to near Palestine, Texas that had both. These things would stay put until you almost stepped on them and then they were off at light speed. The rule was that you couldn't shoot unless they were in a full run. If they stopped you had to try to make them run again before shooting. Total waste of bullets but just a lot of fun. This is certainly not the way to get your next meal. At least not for me.

As far as the OP's question, the flat nosed lead hit the dirt behind those critters exactly the same as a high performance bullet would.

I like the .45 ACP in general. I have grown into the heavy and slow school. Last deer I took was with a 220 grain bullet leaving the muzzle of that carbine at 1850 FPS. Dead 25 yards from where I hit it. It was close, but I wasn't going to shoot at long distance with that 30-40 Krag. I just wanted a chance to take a deer with it.

Never considered it for deer though. Not because don't think it would work but because I have other hand guns I'd rather use. I'd do my own research first on what might work if I did consider it. But that wasn't the OP's question.

Have fun! Be safe! Life is way to short to fuss over the details.

I skimmed but didn't see this mentioned:

.45 Super... AKA... .45 SMC

Basically .45 ACP hopped up to +P+ and then some.

Kinda the same performance as 10mm, but can be a cheaper option for those who already have 45 but no 10mm.

I carry it in Alaska.

I honestly think standard pressure 45 Auto suffers from the same classic constraints as 45 LC Cowboy loads.

98s1lightning said:

Right on 45 super.

Unfortunately most compacts cannot handle the 45 super. Some factory full size guns can handle a limited diet, or a custom sprung/comped gun is required.

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Very true. I shoot it occasionally in 3 factory 45acp guns...

XD45 compact
XD45 tactical
Ruger Blackhawk Convertible

So kinda normal 45 ACP guns

This thread needs another picture...I took this coyote at 53 yards with my Wilson CQB in .45 ACP, iron sights, shooting some old Black Talon ammo I had laying about. One shot through both shoulders...dropped as if hit by lightning.

Well, if we're going to add pictures, here is one where my daughter harvested a javelina during Handgun/Archery/Muzzle Loader season. I had cleaned and loaded my 1861 Springfield rifled musket for her to use, but must have left too much lubricant and it misfired. She put it down and pulled out the RIA double stack .45 I had given her. Of course it was running away from her by then and it was shorter than most of the desert brush. So she aimed for a open spot in the brush she knew it would pass through and held on that spot until it appeared and pulled the trigger for a perfect heart shot. Dropped right there. The kid has ice water in her veins.

A few years back a guy put down a charging grizzly in denali National park with a 45 acp while hiking with his girlfriend. There was no mention in the news story about what type of Ammo he was using. Phil shoemaker did it with a 9mm though so not surprising.

I carried my old outdated clunker all day yesterday, including a practice session in the evening. it may be over 100yrs old, but it still delivers what it was designed to do. It's not a hunting gun.