Can firearms be sold online?

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I wasn't saying that a person shouldn't do those things. I was saying that some people don't want strangers (who know they own firearms) to keep copies of their ID or personal information.
And that's fine. But then I would not buy from them or sell to them.
 
Give them or take from them copies with the address blocked out. All you need is they are a resident of the State where you live and the DL and Permit numbers. Why take a chance?
 
Why take a chance?
I'll try this one more time. I'm not trying to force someone here to do something different than they're doing. Everyone is more than welcome to require whatever they please from a buyer or seller they wish to do business with. I'm simply asking for evidence to back up the claims that there is a risk being taken by legally selling without keeping records of the other party's personal info . Evidence, not another statement that I don't have to do business with them. I'm fully aware of that.

It seems that asking for that evidence really bothers some folks. Not really sure why. Maybe they just don't like being asked for something they don't have. Maybe they just don't feel like posting a link. Or maybe there isn't any evidence to be had. I don't know, but it seems clear that I'm not likely to find out here. :)
 
I've managed to sell a couple of guns I've had for some time and am amazed at what people are paying now. I made a profit on one, and got nearly twice what I paid for another. I'm finding it difficult to stop selling.
 
I'm finding it difficult to stop selling.
I'm finding difficult to stop buying too, there are some great deals on used higher end guns at pawn, also some decent negotiated prices on armslist. Keep looking around, bought 2 top breaks and a Belgium bulldog today, pay them off tomorrow and I'll get some pics up this weekend.
 
I'll try this one more time. I'm not trying to force someone here to do something different than they're doing. Everyone is more than welcome to require whatever they please from a buyer or seller they wish to do business with. I'm simply asking for evidence to back up the claims that there is a risk being taken by legally selling without keeping records of the other party's personal info . Evidence, not another statement that I don't have to do business with them. I'm fully aware of that.

It seems that asking for that evidence really bothers some folks. Not really sure why. Maybe they just don't like being asked for something they don't have. Maybe they just don't feel like posting a link. Or maybe there isn't any evidence to be had. I don't know, but it seems clear that I'm not likely to find out here. :)

In Minnesota, it's a violation of our state firearms law to transfer a pistol or 'semiautomatic military-style assault weapon' (statutorily defined) to someone not personally known to you without seeing a driver's license or other government ID. We are also required to report transfers to the chief of police or county sheriff for approval or denial unless the receiver has a purchase or carry permit. It's also a gross misdemeanor to transfer a pistol or 'assault weapon' to another person without complying with these transfer requirements if the person you transfer it to uses or possesses it in a felony crime of violence within a year of the transfer if the transferee was a prohibited person or it was reasonably foreseeable at the time of transfer that the transferee was likely to use or possess it while committing a felony violent crime.

I have no examples of this happening and no inclination to search Findlaw to find one, I only point out that in my particular state you actually do run the risk of legal prosecution for transferring some firearms to someone without making a good-faith effort to determine if they are a prohibited person, which is most clearly done by verifying they have a permit to carry or purchase.

Now, there's no rule about requiring a person to keep records of this, and I don't, personally, but when I do sell guns in face-to-face transactions, I always verify driver's license and carry permit.
 
Personally I would only sell to someone I already know or through an LGS. I would definitely not meet anyone at my work or home and I would not want to give any personal information, especially my address, to anyone. JMHO.
 
Now, there's no rule about requiring a person to keep records of this, and I don't, personally, but when I do sell guns in face-to-face transactions, I always verify driver's license and carry permit.
I don't think there is any state that requires private sellers and buyers to keep records of each other. Asking to see each other's ID's is very common, but not required in most states (there are some exceptions, like Minnesota, as you pointed out). I have no problem with seeing or showing ID. What I have a problem with is the other party keeping a copy of it. Several posters here have stated that they insist on keeping copies of a buyers ID because they don't want to "take the risk", and yet, none of them seem to have any evidence that the "risk" that they mention (that of a seller getting into legal trouble for conducting a legal sale without a bill of sale or retaining copies of the buyers info) exists. Please note that, once again, I said legal sale.
 
If the gun you purchased legally is traced from a crime scene back to you, and you said you sold it. The next question will be to who? Then there is the civil lawsuit.... you sold a gun to my Jimmy boy and he shot my husband, 2 year old baby or robbed me. The jury awarded HOW much!!
 
Give them or take from them copies with the address blocked out. All you need is they are a resident of the State where you live and the DL and Permit numbers. Why take a chance?
Do you have any verifiable proof of trouble if someone didn't do that? I mean actual arrests and prosecutions, not just internet rumor?
 
If the gun you purchased legally is traced from a crime scene back to you, and you said you sold it. The next question will be to who? Then there is the civil lawsuit.... you sold a gun to my Jimmy boy and he shot my husband, 2 year old baby or robbed me. The jury awarded HOW much!!
Proof? Please cite real examples where this happened...................
 
I'll repeat this once again, since you obviously missed it (somehow). I'm asking for examples of a case where someone legally sold a firearm without a bill of sale or keeping copies of the buyers ID and then got in trouble for the buyers actions at a later date. Not a single one of these cases is an example of that.
This isn't an example at all, it's a person asking a question that isn't answerable without more information.

That's not another. That's talking about liability for a thief's use of a stolen firearm. Completely different subject.

Yet again, another that isn't an example, but rather is addressing firearms that are stolen or are sold to prohibited persons. Totally different subject.

Seriously? This one is about a guy that knowingly sold a gun to a Canadian citizen. Do you suppose if he had kept a copy of the Canadian's ID, all would have been well?

And this one is not about a private seller, but about an FFL who illegally sold a gun to someone.
 
I'll repeat this once again, since you obviously missed it (somehow). I'm asking for examples of a case where someone legally sold a firearm without a bill of sale or keeping copies of the buyers ID and then got in trouble for the buyers actions at a later date. Not a single one of these cases is an example of that.
This isn't an example at all, it's a person asking a question that isn't answerable without more information.

That's not another. That's talking about liability for a thief's use of a stolen firearm. Completely different subject.

Yet again, another that isn't an example, but rather is addressing firearms that are stolen or are sold to prohibited persons. Totally different subject.

Seriously? This one is about a guy that knowingly sold a gun to a Canadian citizen. Do you suppose if he had kept a copy of the Canadian's ID, all would have been well?

And this one is not about a private seller, but about an FFL who illegally sold a gun to someone.
Exactly, there is none.
 
I don't think there is any state that requires private sellers and buyers to keep records of each other. Asking to see each other's ID's is very common, but not required in most states (there are some exceptions, like Minnesota, as you pointed out). I have no problem with seeing or showing ID. What I have a problem with is the other party keeping a copy of it. Several posters here have stated that they insist on keeping copies of a buyers ID because they don't want to "take the risk", and yet, none of them seem to have any evidence that the "risk" that they mention (that of a seller getting into legal trouble for conducting a legal sale without a bill of sale or retaining copies of the buyers info) exists. Please note that, once again, I said legal sale.

In Minnesota, when people do this, it's typically because they want to have proof that thet did due diligence in verifying that the buyer was not a prohibited person, but as you say, most are not real happy about other people having photos of their driver's license.
 
Well everyone needs to do what they think is right and hope nothing comes of it. But for me, I don't don't sell to people unless they have a permit and valid DL from my State because I know its the Law. For me its end of discussion.
 
Discussion drifted off OP's question about sites to buy & sell. At some point he mentioned he was in Wisconsin ( I think ), so these two sites won't help him. However, if you're in Texas or Florida ( I'm TX ) there is Texas gun trader and Florida has Florida gun trader.
https://texasguntrader.com/
http://floridaguntrader.com/

Bought & sold quite a few off Texas gun trader. Each site has a very good Bill of Sale form you can printout if you want. Not required in Texas, but I always insist on it or no sale. There is the "buyer beware" aspect of these sites. Scammers always listing deals too good to be true. The sites have an IP address locator feature that helps.If you find a Colt Python listed for $500 and the seller has a "join date" of yesterday, it's fun to click on IP address location. They might claim Dallas, but their IP location is somewhere in Sudan.
 
I'll try this one more time. I'm not trying to force someone here to do something different than they're doing. Everyone is more than welcome to require whatever they please from a buyer or seller they wish to do business with. I'm simply asking for evidence to back up the claims that there is a risk being taken by legally selling without keeping records of the other party's personal info . Evidence, not another statement that I don't have to do business with them. I'm fully aware of that.

It seems that asking for that evidence really bothers some folks. Not really sure why. Maybe they just don't like being asked for something they don't have. Maybe they just don't feel like posting a link. Or maybe there isn't any evidence to be had. I don't know, but it seems clear that I'm not likely to find out here. :)
There isn't
 
Discussion drifted off OP's question about sites to buy & sell. At some point he mentioned he was in Wisconsin ( I think ), so these two sites won't help him. However, if you're in Texas or Florida ( I'm TX ) there is Texas gun trader and Florida has Florida gun trader.
https://texasguntrader.com/
http://floridaguntrader.com/

Bought & sold quite a few off Texas gun trader. Each site has a very good Bill of Sale form you can printout if you want. Not required in Texas, but I always insist on it or no sale. There is the "buyer beware" aspect of these sites. Scammers always listing deals too good to be true. The sites have an IP address locator feature that helps.If you find a Colt Python listed for $500 and the seller has a "join date" of yesterday, it's fun to click on IP address location. They might claim Dallas, but their IP location is somewhere in Sudan.

Yep! I'm in Wisconsin. Been doing some selling of a couple guns so far and even put up a "wanted" ad for one I can't find available at stores anymore. I've been advised to be aware of scams on Armslist, but nobody is telling me what those scams are. I'd be interested in knowing since I'd like to know what to be on the lookout for.
 
I've been advised to be aware of scams on Armslist, but nobody is telling me what those scams are. I'd be interested in knowing since I'd like to know what to be on the lookout for.
Same as the scams you'll encounter on Craigslist. Easy to avoid. If you stick to meeting face to face, pay or receive cash and don't give out personal info, you'll be fine.
 
Same as the scams you'll encounter on Craigslist. Easy to avoid. If you stick to meeting face to face, pay or receive cash and don't give out personal info, you'll be fine.

Ok. That's my plan. It's funny that you mention meeting face to face because I just got an odd response to a Want ad I placed for a Ruger 9mm carbine. I put in the ad, "If you live in (my town) and have a Ruger 9mm Carbine you're willing to part with, I'd be interested in buying it". I got a response from someone who said he had one, and then I asked for pictures and he sent me a few. When I said I was interested and wanted to meet, he says, "I just looked up your location and it looks like you're too far. If you want to go ahead and set up shipping, I'll pay the shipping charges".

I mean, why answer my ad if he doesn't live in my town and I specifically said I wanted to deal with someone who lived locally? It makes me wonder if he was trying to bait me into handing over money and then not delivering. And looking up my location? Sounds like something a hacker could do. He didn't even need to do that. I put my location in the ad.
 
Ok. That's my plan. It's funny that you mention meeting face to face because I just got an odd response to a Want ad I placed for a Ruger 9mm carbine. I put in the ad, "If you live in (my town) and have a Ruger 9mm Carbine you're willing to part with, I'd be interested in buying it". I got a response from someone who said he had one, and then I asked for pictures and he sent me a few. When I said I was interested and wanted to meet, he says, "I just looked up your location and it looks like you're too far. If you want to go ahead and set up shipping, I'll pay the shipping charges".

I mean, why answer my ad if he doesn't live in my town and I specifically said I wanted to deal with someone who lived locally? It makes me wonder if he was trying to bait me into handing over money and then not delivering. And looking up my location? Sounds like something a hacker could do. He didn't even need to do that. I put my location in the ad.
Could be a scammer, but kinda sounds like just an ordinary idiot. When you start getting into the world of online adds for used stuff, it can be truly amazing how many people can't seem to read, follow simple instructions or do basic internet searches.
 
There are at least 9 or 10 states that do not allow simple private face to face sales presently. In those states, an individual can still sell to another individual but they have to conduct the transaction through a local FFL who will run a background check, have a form 4473 filled out, plus probably charge a fee.

Here's a link that shows the general laws involved for each state for such sales

https://consumer.findlaw.com/consumer-transactions/private-gun-sale-laws-by-state.html

Cheers
I live in one of those states.
 
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