Michigan shooting, attacker induces malfunction

I can’t really tell if it was him making that move that cause him to drop his knife or not. That’s too close for comfort for me but good muscle memory/training for the officer.

Elkins45 said:

I wonder how many police agencies or private trainers intentionally induce malfunctions in order to teach tap, rack, bang?
Story is here: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1233810?__twitter_impression=true

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Every law enforcement agency I've ever worked for, plus my current employer, teaches malfunction clearing drills. First day on the range in the academy we start going over it. Pretty standard. Every commercial training school I've attended covers this at length as well.

If a course doesn't cover malfunction clearing, that'd be a clear sign it's not worth one's time nor money. It's that important.

Well done TRB, but what really amazes me is that the crazed BG still kept coming at her after 5 shots! And it took several more before he was finally stopped.

This:

jmorris said:

That’s too close for comfort for me but good muscle memory/training for the officer.

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Clearing a malfunction the way the deputy did is laudable.

However, holding a handgun at arm's length when a violent suspect gets close enough to reach out and touch that gun (and to cause a malfunction) is not a good idea.

Much better to learn to 1) retract the gun to retention position and 2) put shots on target from that position when a suspect gets that close.

She moved to create more distance.

Malfunctions induced by training dummy rounds loaded at random intervals across multiple magazines, and quickly recovering from same on a course of fire involving accuracy plus time, at several distances to target, , was part of the civilian NRA Advanced Pistol course I and several other classmates took a while back.

I hope typical law enforcement personnel are trained to a higher degree with refreshers at some determined intervals as appropriate but I'll say up front I've never worked in law enforcement. Closest I came to that was working night shifts for various private security companies including Stanly Smith back in the early to mid 1980's. The range course of fire I went through back then qualify for ability to carry or have available a company shotgun, or personal sidearm (S&W Model 13 was what I owned), wasn't very stringent back then. It didn't include any instructor induced malfunctions and recovery from same, and IIRC I was allowed to use .38 Special rounds but chose to qualify with the personal. 357 Magnum ammo I carried (also personally owned back then). No time component of the range work I and fellow employees did back then either. I know it's a lot more classroom plus range work these days at least what I've seen in Texas, and I hope actual law enforcement training and qualification is quantum leaps beyond that.

I'm glad that whole string of events didn't perpetuate into further tragedy before it was stopped. Glad to read the 77 year old stabbing victim is not in critical condition. This is a rough enough time for the senior population.

Standard procedure clearing malfunctions in PD these days. And, if you have a REAL public class whether basic CCW/ CWP or advanced pistol.

When we qualified our instructors introduced inert cartridges into each shooters magazine in one stage of fire. All we knew was, instructor said ''it's not the 1st round, or the last.''

I am wondering. Deputy didn't shoot quicker on a known armed threat, previous assault w/ deadly weapon call victim is bleeding, subject is advancing on the deputy and ignoring commands; probably most likely to perceived current BACKLASH / uproar, marches, Blue hatering? All split seconds mind you, but perhaps?

Elkins45 said:

tap, rack, bang

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....let's hope that no LEO or private instructors teach "tap, rack, bang" as a reflexive response to a type I malfunction.

It better be "tap, rack", evaluate, decide whether you need to pull the trigger again, and only then "bang" if needed.

sparkyv said:

the crazed BG still kept coming at her after 5 shots!

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Quite frankly, my impression watching the opening shot sequence is she actually missed all first half-dozen shots -- pulling left.
It was only when she got him in the arm(?) and he dropped the knife that she began to connect.

Other analysis . . . ?

Various malfunction drills were pretty standard fare where I worked.

The deputy did an awesome job.

I would put money on it.

DoubleMag said:

I am wondering. Deputy didn't shoot quicker on a known armed threat, previous assault w/ deadly weapon call victim is bleeding, subject is advancing on the deputy and ignoring commands; probably most likely to perceived current BACKLASH / uproar, marches, Blue hatering? All split seconds mind you, but perhaps?

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That could be a possible explanation.

MEHavey said:

Quite frankly, my impression watching the opening shot sequence is she actually missed all first half-dozen shots -- pulling left.
It was only when she got him in the arm(?) and he dropped the knife that she began to connect.

Other analysis . . . ?

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I shake my head when people tell me they'll know what kind of stoppage they have by the feel of the trigger, the feel of the slide or by looking onto the ejection port, and be able to quickly figure out what technique to use to clear it. Or when people say "An emergency reload clears any kind of stoppage." This video is proof that you don't have that kind of luxury. Non-diagnostic immediate actions rule.

Training-wise, the learning is to try and make the first 5 shots count, backpeddling while point-shooting and all. Any of those shots could have ended it.

Can't help but notice: the cop shot him while he was bending over trying to be polite and pick up after himself instead of littering. Hope we don't see any rioting about it. . .

Did anyone else notice that the perp has what looks like a collapsible baton or metal rod in his left hand and that’s what struck the pistol?

She should have lit him up much earlier but that’s probably not politically correct in these more enlightened times. SMH

hank327 said:

Did anyone else notice that the perp has what looks like a collapsible baton or metal rod in his left hand and that’s what struck the pistol?

She should have lit him up much earlier but that’s probably not politically correct in these more enlightened times. SMH

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Now that is funny!

I think she did really well. Tap and rack is obviously a basic drill but under pressure even the basics can vanish or be fumbled, particularly when it’s a mortal threat. Well done.

Elkins45 said:

I wonder how many police agencies or private trainers intentionally induce malfunctions in order to teach tap, rack, bang?

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My favorite drill was to put random dummy rounds in student magazines when I was an instructor. The preface instruction was there would always be at least 1 live round and at least 1 dummy. If the test firearm was a Glock 19 for example, there could be 1 or 14 dummies in the magazine. This also helped cut down on flinching for most people.

Before I was an instructor, the Army was experimenting in some units with introducing malfunction drills during marksmanship qualification by putting exactly 2 dummy rounds in each magazine, 2 fully loaded. 4 dummies out of 60 rounds. On that large of a scale, the idea didn't last long at all. Possibly due to the logistics of getting that many dummies and keeping them separate from live rounds. My suggestion was to put blank rounds instead as they would feed and "fire" but it would not cycle the bolt of an M16/M4 without a blank adapter on, requiring the same SPORTS drill.

Elkins45 said:

I wonder how many police agencies or private trainers intentionally induce malfunctions in order to teach tap, rack, bang?

Story is here: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1233810?__twitter_impression=true

Click to expand...

Every 2 day defensive pistol class I have ever taken has a section on malfunction clearance and then begins to force malfunctions during the remaining drills.

John Farnam has a standard final test that includes malfunction clearance.

Not in LE anymore, but still work in an armed capacity. FTE and double feeds are mandated in our quals.