6.5 CM really that much better than the 243?

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remington did make a 6.5x55 in their classic rifle, they are out their but are pretty spendy. i have only been in a posion to buy one and i did and i would buy another if one came my way.
 

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This is the only advantage of the 6.5 CM over the 6.5x55 Swede.
I currently have two 6.5x55's. I wouldn't trade either one for a 6.5 CM.

I have three .243's and won't trade any of them for a Creedmore, either.
JMHO. YMMV. :D

it’s not the only advantage and not even the biggest advantage. 6.5 CM has a TON of factory ammo options. 6.5x55 does not. The sheer variety and amount of ammo available to the 6.5 CM shooter gives it a giant advantage over non-reloaders. Most shooters are not reloaded, therefor, huge advantage to the 6.5 CM.
 
So the only cartridge I can remember (in my limited time on this dirtball) that has risen as fast as 6.5 Creedmore is 40S&W. :neener:

I don't own a 6.5 CM (just a 6mm CM) but nearly all my semi-auto handguns are 40S&W. :D
 
Name another cartridge that has done as well as the 6.5 Creedmoor has done in the first 13 years of its life its a well thought out cartridge you don’t have to badmouth it every time it’s mentioned if it weren’t as good as they claim it to be why is it kicking ass in the sales department?

The ballistics of the 6.5 mm Creedmoor were well thought out.
That was over 100 years ago with the 6.5 mm Swedish cartridge that it copied.

And sales volume is not a measure of superior ability. It is a measure of popularity, which is often irrational.
Justin Bieber and the sales volume of his recordings seem a classic example of this.

And, neither the 6.5 mm Swedish or the 6.5 mm Creedmoor are sacred cows. Other cartridges receive plenty of criticism on this forum as well.

But the OP's question is about whether the ballistics of the 6.5 mm Creedmoor are actually superior to the .243 Winchester.
I think that this remains debatable.
But since the Swedish and the Creedmoor are as alike as peas in a pod, you do have to wonder why it and so many other cartridges were developed after the introduction of the Swedish. Those ballistics being so perfect 100 years ago, I mean.
 
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Whitetail buck of a lifetime, lined up at 204 yds....you can pick either 6.5 Creed or 243 Win to take the shot.... whats it gonna be?
I think I will pick my 270 Winmore
 
Whitetail buck of a lifetime, lined up at 204 yds....you can pick either 6.5 Creed or 243 Win to take the shot.... whats it gonna be?

I'll take a .308 or a .270. Much more versatile. A lot of cartridges would work excellently.
 
Whitetail buck of a lifetime, lined up at 204 yds....you can pick either 6.5 Creed or 243 Win to take the shot.... whats it gonna be?
I think I will pick my 270 Winmore

Hopefully the gun that the hunter has spent the most time with, shooting at the range, and in the woods. They hopefully know intimately exactly what to dial or hold for a 204 yard shot and has already made similar shots at the range and other more difficult but lower stakes settings before that lifetime buck showed up.

Hard to beat the confidence earned through lots of use in difficult situations. These discussion of all the nuances of one cartridge vs another are great fun right up to the point where you put money on the counter and walk out with the hardware. From that point forward it's all about executions, practice, and experience with the selected hardware. The guy that practice that 204 yard shot over and over with a 12 gauge slug-gun is better off than the guy that never practice with his magic new latest and greatest rifle cartridge.
 
The ballistics of the 6.5 mm Creedmoor were well thought out.
That was over 100 years ago with the 6.5 mm Swedish cartridge that it copied.

And sales volume is not a measure of superior ability. It is a measure of popularity, which is often irrational.
Justin Bieber and the sales volume of his recordings seem a classic example of this.

And, neither the 6.5 mm Swedish or the 6.5 mm Creedmoor are sacred cows. Other cartridges receive plenty of criticism on this forum as well.

But the OP's question is about whether the ballistics of the 6.5 mm Creedmoor are actually superior to the .243 Winchester.
I think that this remains debatable.
But since the Swedish and the Creedmoor are as alike as peas in a pod, you do have to wonder why it and so many other cartridges were developed after the introduction of the Swedish. Those ballistics being so perfect 100 years ago, I mean.
You are stuck on the fact that the 6.5 CM does what the Swede does. I don’t disagree. The difference is that the 6.5 CM has a TON of ammo support that the x55 does not and will not ever have. I own rifles chambered in both. I can find anything from match ammo to hunting loads for my CMs loaded as hot as possible. Finding ammo for the x55 is a more complicated matter in my neck of the woods. There’s nothing wrong with admitting that the 6.5 CM is a good round without a qualifier.
 
I'm a 243 owner , shooter and hunter. Never been under gunned for what I use the 243 for. (WT, Mule deer, Pronghorn, Black Bear, Cougar and all the different varmints) use 100 grn on Big Game. 75 grn on the varmimts.
Is the 6.5 really that much better? Buddy of mine says it's the best caliber for all hunting in the lower 48. And says he believes it'd make an excellent African plains hunting caliber for all the thin skinned non dangerous game they have.
If I want more HP. I go with my tried and true 06.

If the .243 is meeting all your needs, why sweat changing? Like you said, you have an “ought-six”...sounds like you are good to go to me.

If You were a newbie starting from scratch, probably be more to ponder...
 
it’s not the only advantage and not even the biggest advantage. 6.5 CM has a TON of factory ammo options. 6.5x55 does not. The sheer variety and amount of ammo available to the 6.5 CM shooter gives it a giant advantage over non-reloaders. Most shooters are not reloaded, therefor, huge advantage to the 6.5 CM.
For the hunter or average Joe Blow, yes, I agree. For competition shooters, I do not.

In a competition setting, if the shooter does not reload, chances are he will not be competitive. He certainly will not be competitive at the Master Class or Championship level where the smallest of differences may have a huge impact on a score. (The only way to squeeze the absolute most from any individual firearm is to tailor the ammunition to the rifle. Factory off-the-shelf ammunition cannot do this.)
I compete in Metallic Silhouette at the A Class level. It is a rare thing that a non-reloader will place in a match shooting in High Power Silhouette. (I personally do not know of any, though it may have happened somewhere.) I would be very surprised if any placing Silhouette shooter at the National Matches buys his ammo off the shelf.
I believe this is likely in most other Center Fire / High Power Rifle competition divisions, too.
 
ou are stuck on the fact that the 6.5 CM does what the Swede does. I don’t disagree. The difference is that the 6.5 CM has a TON of ammo support that the x55 does not and will not ever have. I own rifles chambered in both. I can find anything from match ammo to hunting loads for my CMs loaded as hot as possible. Finding ammo for the x55 is a more complicated matter in my neck of the woods. There’s nothing wrong with admitting that the 6.5 CM is a good round without a qualifier.

We both agree that the two cartridges enjoy identical ballistics.
Therefore, we both agree that the Creedmoor is not, and never was, a superior and unique cartridge development at all, except in reduced length in exchange for higher pressures.
In this respect it's no different than the .308 as compared to the .30-06.
So it's not a better, nor even a remarkable cartridge.
It just has more factory loads available.
And since any cartridge could be offered with better factory loads, that changes nothing.
 
It is interesting that 6.5 CM ammo selection has increased dramatically both in quality, diversity and quantity. The Attwoods store near me has nearly an entire shelf of a good selection of 6.5 CM and a decent amount of .308 and virtually everything else is gone. Either these two rounds are not as popular as thought or they are so popular even farm stores stock up.

I was really wanting a .243 but instead bought a .223 and then two 6.5 CM to fill the gap between 22LR, MR/17HMR and my .270 W and supplement my several Marlin lever guns of various calibers.

IMG-1079.jpg

But, now of course, I would still want that .243, arrrggghhh.
 
So the only cartridge I can remember (in my limited time on this dirtball) that has risen as fast as 6.5 Creedmore is 40S&W. :neener:

I don't own a 6.5 CM (just a 6mm CM) but nearly all my semi-auto handguns are 40S&W. :D
Well, the .300 WSM came pretty close.:scrutiny:
I have a Browning A-Bolt in .300 WSM. Bought it about 2002 or 2003 IIRC.:)
 
Whitetail buck of a lifetime, lined up at 204 yds....you can pick either 6.5 Creed or 243 Win to take the shot.... whats it gonna be?
I think I will pick my 270 Winmore

I'd feel just as comfortable with either.

Seen mulies shot at 300 with a 243 that went straight down, so I'd have no question about the 243's effectiveness 100 yards closer in. And 204 yards is right at my scope's zero. If I have a good angle on the deer, that's a shot I take with a very high level of confidence.
 
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I think that this remains debatable.
I don't think that's debatable at all. Not even close.


But since the Swedish and the Creedmoor are as alike as peas in a pod, you do have to wonder why it and so many other cartridges were developed after the introduction of the Swedish. Those ballistics being so perfect 100 years ago, I mean.
It may have been perfect 100yrs ago but a lot has c hanged in that time. We know a lot more about ballistics than we did then. I mean seriously, the Swede was designed shortly after the dawn of the metallic cartridge.


We both agree that the two cartridges enjoy identical ballistics.
Therefore, we both agree that the Creedmoor is not, and never was, a superior and unique cartridge development at all, except in reduced length in exchange for higher pressures.
In this respect it's no different than the .308 as compared to the .30-06.
So it's not a better, nor even a remarkable cartridge.
It just has more factory loads available.
And since any cartridge could be offered with better factory loads, that changes nothing.
Sorry but you're measuring with the wrong ruler. Don’t know why this has to come up every time the 6.5CM is mentioned. It was never designed or intended to replace the 6.5x55 or .260Rem as a hunting cartridge. It was designed by and marketed for 1000yd PRS matches. PERIOD. Most of what it offers over either of those cartridges is not really applicable to hunting. The case has very little taper, a sharp shoulder and long neck. It is extremely efficient, especially in shorter barrels. An advantage over both. It also fits into the AR10 action, which the Swede does not. It also has a higher operating pressure than the Swede. It has a faster standard twist than the .260. You can't change the SAAMI standard operating pressure or standard twist rates of existing cartridges, so why not draw up a new one that eliminates those shortcomings AND goes several steps further? So the fact that the 6.5 is a thoroughly modern rifle cartridge, chambered only in modern rifles, that is FAR more available than either of its competitors, IS a benefit to hunters. Its popularity is also a benefit of 6.5x55 and .260 fans because it ensures further bullet development. Why some people feel the need to run it into the ground as something trendy and stupid is beyond me.
 
Not trendy and stupid..... Just a trendy and redundant marketing masterpiece. :D
It's not redundant, i just outlined the things it does that existing cartridges didn't. Real, tangible benefits. It wasn't created to market something new to suckers. It actually does what it was intended to do.

And people talk all the time about marketing and hype. I don't even know what marketing or hype they're talking about.
 
If you want/need to shoot the heavier bullets, then the 6.5 Creed is better than the stock .243 (Not re-barreled fast twist .243s), but if all you need is the lighter bullets, neither has a real advantage in my mind, except for market support.
 
We both agree that the two cartridges enjoy identical ballistics.
Therefore, we both agree that the Creedmoor is not, and never was, a superior and unique cartridge development at all, except in reduced length in exchange for higher pressures.
In this respect it's no different than the .308 as compared to the .30-06.
So it's not a better, nor even a remarkable cartridge.
It just has more factory loads available.
And since any cartridge could be offered with better factory loads, that changes nothing.
Surely you aren’t so dense as to believe that having a larger selection of factory loads is not an advantage. This is especially true when the selection is so vastly superior for one cartridge. I’ve never argued that that 6.5x55 is inferior to the 6.5 CM ballistically. As a total package, the Swede is a worse choice than the 6.5 CM today. The differences are not drastic. The CM certainly does not make the x55 obsolete, but there are some advantages and only a fool would argue that those advantages don’t exist.
 
For the hunter or average Joe Blow, yes, I agree. For competition shooters, I do not.

In a competition setting, if the shooter does not reload, chances are he will not be competitive. He certainly will not be competitive at the Master Class or Championship level where the smallest of differences may have a huge impact on a score. (The only way to squeeze the absolute most from any individual firearm is to tailor the ammunition to the rifle. Factory off-the-shelf ammunition cannot do this.)
I compete in Metallic Silhouette at the A Class level. It is a rare thing that a non-reloader will place in a match shooting in High Power Silhouette. (I personally do not know of any, though it may have happened somewhere.) I would be very surprised if any placing Silhouette shooter at the National Matches buys his ammo off the shelf.
I believe this is likely in most other Center Fire / High Power Rifle competition divisions, too.
The OP is about a hunting rifle, is it not?
 
Ya know I've seen testing that still shows the .270 ahead velocity wise out to 800 yards with comparable bullets. 6.5C's a great cartridge, but it's not magic:

https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/6-5-creedmoor-versus-270-winchester/

I load for a friends 6.5 in a 24" barrel and with 140s he's getting right at 2750 while I get a little over 3050 with 140s in my .270, so in my barrel at least and his it's closer to a 300 FPS difference.
This. I had to rant in another thread and won't do it here but to say, run a ballistic calculator on those numbers. The 6.5 doesn't "catch up" (instantaneous velocity) until 800 yds (not 200), at which point the 270 already been there for a bit. As good as the 6.5 is, its not a 270 let alone an '06. No more than an '06 is a 300WM.
 
It may have been perfect 100yrs ago but a lot has c hanged in that time. We know a lot more about ballistics than we did then. I mean seriously, the Swede was designed shortly after the dawn of the metallic cartridge.

Around 1896. And since the Creedmor shares its' ballistics, it must also be outdated and ancient.

The case has very little taper, a sharp shoulder and long neck. It is extremely efficient, especially in shorter barrels.

So what? How does this change the fact that its' ballistics remain the same as the ancient 6.5 Swedish?

So the fact that the 6.5 is a thoroughly modern rifle cartridge,

With the same ballistics as the ancient Swedish? Sort of a contradiction, don't you think?

Why some people feel the need to run it into the ground as something trendy and stupid is beyond me.

Claiming that I am running it into the ground is untrue. I am simply stating the facts and letting them tell the tale. If that hurts your feelings, that is your problem.
 
Surely you aren’t so dense as to believe that having a larger selection of factory loads is not an advantage

First of all, don't call me Shirley.
A wide range of factory loads for ANY cartridge is always an advantage for any cartridge.
But this is simply attempting to sidestep the facts that the Creedmoor ballistics are the same as the Swedish and offer no improvement over it.
Reloading for the Swedish using those same bullets would result in the same or better results.
It has been stated that the 6.5 Creedmoor is NOT simply a repackaging of the Swedish to produce a trendy new cartridge, but that is pretty much all that it is.
 
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