It's Testy Out There

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In my experience, its a reasonable assumption that whoever fires first usually wins. Kind of like a fist fight. I just assume everyone out there can shoot and fight as well or better than I can. That's why I avoid confrontations- SOMEONE is going to the hospital, or worse. At least that's the way I look at it.
 
Terry Vincent said:
if you lack confidence in your weaponry and/or your skills, why do you go armed?
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You have missed the point. I carry, and have trained, to defend myself should the need arise.

What I have said is that I do not think that anyone can be highly confident that handgun hits will necessarily disable an attacker instantly, as would be desirable in the case of someone who is already pointing a gun.

Do you?

Terry Vincent said:
Well. yeah, but if I don’t shoot I give him all the opportunity for an unfettered assault.
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That opportunity exists draw, before you draw, as you draw, and probably, for some moments, after you have fired.. But if you do draw, you can expect the likelihood that he will shoot to increase from something less than 100% to near certainty.

If you shoot, that may or may not end the threat timely.
 
Kleanbore said:
You have missed the point. I carry, and have trained, to defend myself should the need arise.

What I have said is that I do not think that anyone can be highly confident that handgun hits will necessarily disable an attacker instantly, as would be desirable in the case of someone who is already pointing a gun.

Do you?

Opportunity exists draw, before you draw, as you draw, and probably, for some moments, after you have fired.. But if you do draw, you can expect the likelihood that he will shoot to increase from something less than 100% to near certainty
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The scenario of an adversary pointing a firearm at me creates an immediate expectation on my part the bad guy will discharge his weapon, with the result of great bodily injury or death to me. It is foolish to think otherwise and hope he will somehow refrain from taking my life through thoughtful dialogue on my part or graciousness on his part. My life is too important to me to capitulate and hope for the best, so I have trained and practiced for such situations we currently address, and I am confident I have the skills and capabilities to prevail even under fire. Yes, the villain may get a round off after I hit him with two of my rounds, but as I trained to shoot and move simultaneously his success will be impaired, while my survival is substantially enhanced as compared to merely standing in the kill zone waiting to see the decision of the bad guy.
You, and you alone will decide a course of action if confronted with this scenario. I won’t be there to debate with you what response to implement. I don’t know your skill level or practice regimen, but I do know mine, which continues to this day from a long law enforcement history.
I’ll leave you with this final admonition I have given to every law enforcement officer I trained in deadly force application and gun fights: It is my fervent wish you survive your first fire fight, and any subsequent episodes you may experience. Have the mind set to survive, train and practice to win, and employ the right weapons to eliminate the threat.
 
The man who drew the gun in the Walmart incident cited in the OP did not shoot.

He departed and is being sought.

That is always one possibility, and it is the desired one.

Such an incident could take other turns--all of them worse.

I do not know whether others at the scene expected him to shoot, but that does not matter now.
 
I should think that the risks for a civilian would be different from those for a uniformed officer.

A man pointing a gun with evil intent would certainly see a police officer as an immediate threat, and would likely shoot without delay.

A civilian who is not carrying openly would mo probably not be perceived as an immediate threat--unless and until he started to draw from concealment.
 
Kleanbore said:
A civilian who is not carrying openly would mo probably not be perceived as an immediate threat--unless and until he started to draw from concealment.
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... with almost certain results in a crowded market.

I bought a truck during the shutdown and had to conduct all bank business in the drive through. The lengthy transaction caused an emotional boilover in the vehicle behind me which began with shouts, followed by approaching my vehicle with threats. There were a lot of understanding folks in the other cars and a chorus of "calling the cops" (including from the teller's loudspeaker) sent the irate person back to his vehicle.
In this case the possibility of arrest deescalated the situation. In the Walmart scenario reaching for a phone may be perceived as reaching for an equal response.
One could only hope bystanders would react as did my fellow bank customers.

So many tempers!
 
CDW4ME said:
A large man acts as if bullet wounds are bee stings.
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And you've been shot how many times, and under what circumstances?
I am a large man, and have been shot. It did not feel like a bee sting, it felt like a baseball bat to the head. And that was from a ricochet of a partial projectile with the equivalent energy of a .32 ACP. (half of a .30-30 bouncing off a steel plate at 50 ft.)
 
TarDevil said:
We venture out to the grocery store, home improvement stores and occasional dinner at select restaurants. When I do, I wear my mask and will overtly distance myself from anyone not wearing one. Apparently the subject of masks has become a volatile trigger for confrontations, to the point that one Walmart customer drew his gun and pointed it in the direction of a mask-wearing customer.

I have been, and continue, pondering this specific scenario wondering what would be my response. I've been trained that a gun should never be drawn unless ready to use it and my assumption would be the same about someone unholstering at me. But I'd hate to think I shot someone over a face mask dispute (I'm not gonna confront anyone about masks, but I will dodge them like they're a festering plague).

Is this an OK discussion? How long do you wait when someone has a barrel pointed in your general direction? Do we assume the brandishing individual is just trying to get his point across with no intent to act further?

Like I said, it's a wild world out there.
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Very good point --- at what point are you in true danger of being shot for doing what you are legally supposed to do ?

I have had muzzles pointed at me in my past [ LEO etc ] ,but now I am just a citizen and as such I would take greater umbrage and feel a greater threat if that happens.

If a gun is presented ,and I see little or no intent ot use [ they are not shooting ] then I will say I am sorry and BACK AWAY !.

Playing out the OK Corral is not a healthy way to survive !
 
scaatylobo said:
Playing out the OK Corral is not a healthy way to survive !
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I have zero evidence to base it on, but I would feel comfortable in assuming that this scenario would possibly be unhealthy for everyone involved. As well as potentially several people who aren't involved at all.

I just think I'd feel better if nobody got shot. Especially people who had nothing to do with the situation I somehow became entangled in.
 
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Kleanbore said:
I should think that the risks for a civilian would be different from those for a uniformed officer.

A man pointing a gun with evil intent would certainly see a police officer as an immediate threat, and would likely shoot without delay.

A civilian who is not carrying openly would mo probably not be perceived as an immediate threat--unless and until he started to draw from concealment.
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Maybe, maybe not. Are you saying that that's something you would bet on, if you were in that situation?
 
entropy said:
And you've been shot how many times, and under what circumstances?
I am a large man, and have been shot. It did not feel like a bee sting, it felt like a baseball bat to the head. And that was from a ricochet of a partial projectile with the equivalent energy of a .32 ACP. (half of a .30-30 bouncing off a steel plate at 50 ft.)
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Docs 3rd rule,

Unless I'm directly threatened, if I see a gun I'm gone! Since I don't interact with knuckleheads at any level - especially in public. And you should not either.

Got hit in the head by a 7.62 x 39 that ricocheted off a bunch rocks. Hurt like the devil, bled like a pig and got me a purple heart. I have his red star belt buckle.
 
entropy said:
And you've been shot how many times, and under what circumstances?
I am a large man, and have been shot. It did not feel like a bee sting, it felt like a baseball bat to the head. And that was from a ricochet of a partial projectile with the equivalent energy of a .32 ACP. (half of a .30-30 bouncing off a steel plate at 50 ft.)
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My comment was in regard to the video. (post #47)
If I have not been shot I can't make a comment?
tony-stark-eye-roll.jpg
 
bikerdoc said:
Docs 3rd rule,

Unless I'm directly threatened, if I see a gun I'm gone! Since I don't interact with knuckleheads at any level - especially in public. And you should not either.

Got hit in the head by a 7.62 x 39 that ricocheted off a bunch rocks. Hurt like the devil, bled like a pig and got me a purple heart. I have his red star belt buckle.
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Mine was self-inflicted. Ricochet from test firing a .30-30 in the test tunnel at the gun shop.
 
bikerdoc said:
Docs 3rd rule,

Unless I'm directly threatened, if I see a gun I'm gone! Since I don't interact with knuckleheads at any level - especially in public. And you should not either.

Got hit in the head by a 7.62 x 39 that ricocheted off a bunch rocks. Hurt like the devil, bled like a pig and got me a purple heart. I have his red star belt buckle.
Click to expand...

I got shot with a speargun (True story bro) does that count?
 
I've said it before but it's almost impossible to analyze this one because we don't have any real idea what actually happened.

Did the Masked Avenger say something to Fat Rambo because he wasn't wearing a mask and Fat Rambo took exception? Did Fat Rambo recognize The Masked Avenger as the guy the his wife was having an affair with?
 
Trunk Monkey has more information on this case and I’m reopening the thread so he can post it. Let’s stay on topic.
 
https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/pr...red-meyer-shopper/LKIWZGE5JZGQHOEVM4YPFC5XXU/

Apparently the "victim" approached a man in a Fred Meyer's store in Tumwater WA. whom he saw not wearing a mask and demanded that he put one on. Things escalated from there.

Now apparently the guy who was not wearing the mask had some issues because when the police arrived he refused to turn over his weapon (which turned out to be a .22 caliber revolver) and the police had to take him into custody by force.

I have some personal rules that I live by in one of them is don't stick my nose in other people's business. Fred Meyers doesn't pay me to enforce their mask policy.

People don't like being corrected. Even when I'm at work and I AM being paid to enforce somebody's company policy people don't like it when I have to ask them to comply. No matter how polite I am people don't like it. Even if they comply they don't like it. So when I'm on my time I don't play rule police.
 
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