.357 Troubles

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KINGLIZRD

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Hey all new to the forum.

Been loading 38 special for a few months now. Have only done one run of .357.

I am currently having issues with my 1x fired 357 brass not holding neck tension on the bullets.

The last loads were alliant 2400 at 11gr with Winchester magnum primer. In Hornady brass. 158gr Hornady ftx jacketed hp. At 1.590

I'm using the lee carbide 3 piece set.

My current problem is when seating the bullets there is almost no neck tension on any of the cases. Many i can move easily with my fingers before and after crimping. If there is adequate neck tension once I get to the canneluer groove of the bullet I lose any tension that was there.

I am also having this issue with cases that I have not pressed onto the neck expander die.

Measurements of the bullets is .357 and the expander at its base is .356 and .358 past the flare.

Im hoping a collet crimp will solve my issues but any input would be greatly appreciated!!
 
Welcome, King. From your posting, it sounds like the expander 'past the flare' is larger in diameter than the bullet is in circumference. The case mouth needs to be just a bit tighter than the bullet; that is what gives neck tension.

Some brands or lots of all brands tend to vary just a bit in dimensions. Also, all types of sizing and expanding dies vary just a touch. I have on occasion had a pile of brass that was of the thinnest possible thickness. So it was resized on the minimum side. So bullets fit loose.
I solved it by resizing, then adjusting the expander die to just barely enter the case mouth, giving just enough belling to seat the bullets without expanding the entire seating position of the case.
Yes, a hard tight crimp will probably help out, but proper neck tension causes the powder to burn more uniformly and give better results.
 
I have resized these brass multiple times as I have heard that sometimes thinner brass has issues sizing down. At first I resized each case several times with the decapping pin in. Then once I had neck tension issued I retried without the pin.

Is there such a thing as a small base/body die for 357 like I have for my 308 rounds?

Should i just toss this brass and stard fresh. Its about 30 primed cases.
 
There is no crimp that will fix a no bullet tension issue. Are the 38s the same brass company as the 357. Thinner 357 case walls defies logic but if your 38s have good tension and 357s dont I have to believe you have a brass issue.
 
Agree that if 38 brass has good firm tension then so should .357 Mag. Scrap the Lee dies and upgrade would be my recommendation. Could be the expander plug oversized or misadjusted where its flaring or over expanding too far down in the 357 brass. Is the expander plug stepped where it is larger up the stem? Only need to expand to where the base of the bullet stops in the case.
 
There is no crimp that will fix a no bullet tension issue. Are the 38s the same brass company as the 357. Thinner 357 case walls defies logic but if your 38s have good tension and 357s dont I have to believe you have a brass issue.

There is significantly more tension with my 38 brass. I can still insert and remove the bullets by hand but it takes effort/significant squeezing of the bullet.

The bullet will move if I tighten the caliper on the 357 brass when taking measurements with almost no effort. The bullet in the 38 case is not loose by any means but does not need the press to set deeper in the case.
 
Have you adjusted all the dies per the instructions when you switched from .38 to .357?

Yes for the expander/load die its 2 full turns for magnum loads. And I adjust the expander by hand 2 full turns as well for minor expansion/flare.

There wasn't any directions for 357 on the seating die. The directions said 3 full turns out for 38 so I went 4 and 1/4 and adjust so there is no crimp. Then lower the seat until its at recomended length.

Once I get all the rounds to length I then completly raise the seat them lower the die until I get desired crimp.
 
Yes for the expander/load die its 2 full turns for magnum loads. And I adjust the expander by hand 2 full turns as well for minor expansion/flare.

There wasn't any directions for 357 on the seating die. The directions said 3 full turns out for 38 so I went 4 and 1/4 and adjust so there is no crimp. Then lower the seat until its at recomended length.

Once I get all the rounds to length I then completly raise the seat them lower the die until I get desired crimp.

Okay, then it sounds like your sizing die isn't doing it's job. Actually, it might not be doing anything to your .38 brass either, but being lower pressure it just isn't stretching as much.

If you resize your .357 brass and then try and push a bullet into the case, will it go without using the flare die?
 
Okay, then it sounds like your sizing die isn't doing it's job. Actually, it might not be doing anything to your .38 brass either, but being lower pressure it just isn't stretching as much.

If you resize your .357 brass and then try and push a bullet into the case, will it go without using the flare die?

Yes
 
I use R-P brass for mild loaded .358" lead in 357 mag. For .357" jacketed bullets I use brass that provides adequate neck tension. I think most of my handgun dies are RCBS and for some cartridges I have more than one flare/expander die.
 
As noted, it's possible your sizing die is not sizing them down far enough, although if it is working with your 38 special brass is should be working with the 357 brass.

Resize a 38 and a 357 and measure their diameter about 1/8" below the case mouth (don't run them through the expander), and let know what that is. That might help us confirm whether it's sizing them enough.

If the problem is the sizer, you can contact Lee and see if they will replace it.

As noted, some thin walled brass brands, like Remington, can be the problem. I don't have enough experience with Hornady to know if they are also a little thin.

One fix is to use an undersize sizing die. Lee makes one, and it can solve the problem with thin-walled cases.
https://leeprecision.com/undersize-sizing-die-38-357.html

They are out of stock at Lee, but Midway has them.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012827841?pid=268261

However, you'll have to watch that your regular expander die don't expand them too much. In the worst case, you can use a 9mm expander, which is about .002" smaller since it normally is for .355 bullets.
 

Then your sizing die is too big.

One should not be able to press a bullet by hand into the case. Recoil in a magazine will setback the bullets and increase pressure, in your revolver the bullets will pull out under recoil and lock the cylinder up.

I had a 50AE sizing die from RCBS the was too big. The Hornady set I bought reduced them another .006-.007”, meaning the die was even smaller than that, brass springs.
Bullet setback in an Eagle is, unpleasant. To say the least...

And measure the expander too. No sense in fixing the sizing just to ruin it with too much flare. I like the M-type expanders, but it does remove neck tension as it makes the seat for the bullet and the flare, so don’t go too deep.

And welcome to the forum!:thumbup:
Glad you’re here.

Now how about a picture of the pistol we’re helping you with?:)
 
As noted, it's possible your sizing die is not sizing them down far enough, although if it is working with your 38 special brass is should be working with the 357 brass.

Resize a 38 and a 357 and measure their diameter about 1/8" below the case mouth (don't run them through the expander), and let know what that is. That might help us confirm whether it's sizing them enough.

If the problem is the sizer, you can contact Lee and see if they will replace it.

As noted, some thin walled brass brands, like Remington, can be the problem. I don't have enough experience with Hornady to know if they are also a little thin.

One fix is to use an undersize sizing die. Lee makes one, and it can solve the problem with thin-walled cases.
https://leeprecision.com/undersize-sizing-die-38-357.html

They are out of stock at Lee, but Midway has them.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012827841?pid=268261

However, you'll have to watch that your regular expander die don't expand them too much. In the worst case, you can use a 9mm expander, which is about .002" smaller since it normally is for .355 bullets.

Both are measuring at .3770
 
Measure the inside of your sizing die, and the outside and inside of the brass. Let us know what it is.

Sounds like the sizing die is too large, or missing the carbide insert.

All my RP brass goes into a separate bend due to it's thinner wall and softer brass. Only works well with over size lead bullets.
 
This would be a tempting time to order some new dies. I started with Lee dies in all 3 pistol calibers I load but have gradually replaced most of the dies. I still use the through the powder expander and sometimes the FCD. Before switching dies I polished one expander down some. I can say that I like the Redding and the RCBS sizing dies I picked up on Ebay a lot better then I did the Lees that they replaced.
 
Over crimping can ruin neck tension, but it doesn't sound like you have any neck tension before you get to that step, so assuming that is correct, and also since you have tried some by sizing the case and skipping the expander step and they are still loose before crimping, the sizer is too big. Call Lee and they will take care of it.

Some sizers are tight enough for all but the thinner RP cases, but a good sizer will work with those as well. I had trouble getting a tight enough .38/.357 sizer myself.
 
Agree that if 38 brass has good firm tension then so should .357 Mag. Scrap the Lee dies and upgrade would be my recommendation. Could be the expander plug oversized or misadjusted where its flaring or over expanding too far down in the 357 brass. Is the expander plug stepped where it is larger up the stem? Only need to expand to where the base of the bullet stops in the case.
If his dies work for 38s. Then it's not a junk die issue.
I agree with you about the expander being set wrong.
I have done that in the past when switching from 38 to 357.
 
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