Be gentle with me.

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John#2

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My second hand-load session was with 44 Specials.

They shot fine out of the Ruger Blackhawk at 25 yards.

They tumbled badly out of the Henry Model X shooting off hand at 50 yards.

I have slugged the two barrels: .429 for the revolver and .431 for the lever, perfect per SAMMI.

I shot .430 SWC Miester 240 grain cast lead bullets with 8 grains of Powder Pistol. Winchester large pistol primers.

Any clue what I did wrong?

Last weekend when I shot the lever with magnum cases, same bullets with three different charges of IMR 4227 and three different charges of Power Pistol I never had a problem.

Note: after shooting the reloads I notice the thread protector was about two turns loose. After I tightened it I shot some commercial cowboy 44 Specials. No tumble.

Could the thread protector being loose have tumbled the bullets?
 

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.430 is not large enough for cast 431 minimum maybe larger.You need 1 to 2 thousands over the .431.If you haven’t been over to castboolits you should check it out and join great info for cast shooting

yeah, I knew that. Didn’t think it would cause tumble.

Funny thing as I look at that target closer. The tumbled imprints are longer than the bullet.
 
I got rid of my 44mag Marlin. It slugged .4315". It would only shoots cast bullets well that were at least .432" diameter.

SAAMI really needs to do everyone a solid and revise their 44mag specs so that pistol and rifle share the same groove diameter. I have to idea what they were thinking when they came up with that damn .431" number for rifles.
 
Funny thing as I look at that target closer. The tumbled imprints are longer than the bullet.
Bullets are hitting sideways. I bought a very old rifle and when I tried to sight it in. the first round I fired identified the bullet by the profile on the target.

Tumbling means - in the extreme - flipping end over end. Less extreme it entails 'fishtailing' as in a car under heavy acceleration. Either way plays hob with accuracy. In the used rifle I had, the lands and grooves could be seen when looking down the bore, but they were so worn as to have no effect on the bullet. Shooting a .430" bullet in a .431" bore is quite similar - a vague connection between bullet and rifling. A larger diameter bullet is the easiest fix. That somewhat restricts you to cast lead bullets, but out of that rifle, that isn't a handicap.
 
Another thing to consider, check the twist rate, I believe the Henry is 1:38 twist rate. With the slower velocity of 44 special, it may have trouble stabilizing a 240gn bullet.

Even though the groove diameter is .431, I would think the bore diameter would be small enough for the bullets to still engage the rifling.
 
Yeap, I also have found bare paper hanging targets to show ragged hole almost like tumbling boolits. A cardboard backer will clear this up for you.
^^^^^this^^^^ is the only way to really know what is going on with your rifle bullets. Be sure to use a good backer and evaluate the results before you change components.
 
any leading in the rifle barrel? there should be leading if that is the cause of your keyholing bullets. you might want to clean the lead out before you run those .432" dia. bullets.

luck,

murf
 
any leading in the rifle barrel? there should be leading if that is the cause of your keyholing bullets. you might want to clean the lead out before you run those .432" dia. bullets.

luck,

murf
That’s a really good point. Ran about 30 cast bullets through it. Cleaned the rifle without checking. What’s the best way to check? Never shot cast before except maybe 70 through the revolver the weekend prior. All new to me.
 
With a very tight fitting patch on a jag, you'll feel it scraping and snagging on lead. There will be little particles and slivers of lead on the patch when it exits.

A Hoppes tornado brush works great to get it out.
 
you can look down the muzzle of the barrel with a magnifying glass, or loupe. lead in the last inch, or two, means the rest of the barrel is leaded. brushing, or jb bore paste on a patch should remove the lead.

luck,

murf
 
FWIW and often over looked; SAAMI barrel dimensions for rifles is .431" groove diameter. For handguns it is .429" Why the difference? I dunno, but I checked that out when I first slugged the barrel of my 44 Magnum Puma, and I thought something was wrong with my gun. I cast and size the bullets to be used in my rifle to .433". Using .429" to .431" which I use in my handguns won't give decent accuracy and often leads the barrel of my Puma...
 
FWIW and often over looked; SAAMI barrel dimensions for rifles is .431" groove diameter. For handguns it is .429" Why the difference?
Maybe that is why the Zero .431 JSP bullets work so well in my 20" Rossi. I've never slugged it, though.
 
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any leading in the rifle barrel? there should be leading if that is the cause of your keyholing bullets. you might want to clean the lead out before you run
With a very tight fitting patch on a jag, you'll feel it scraping and snagging on lead. There will be little particles and slivers of lead on the patch when it exits.

A Hoppes tornado brush works great to get it out.

Well, didn't feel it when I cleaned out the barrel, but I'll do a close visual when I get a chance--probably this weekend. I loaded some 300 grain jacketed XTPs at .430 so we'll see happens. I'll check the barrel first to make sure it's good to go.
 
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