Tell me about AR-style .22s...

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When you're using it as a trainer, you want those big mags so it feels exactly like reloading a centerfire.

There is a new AR derivative that uses 10/22 mags but I forget who makes it.
I understand the .22 trainer concept, but magazine size is now a factor in a rimfire trainer rifle? Please...

You know, what would actually be a good trainer and be reasonable in ammo cost would be a 9mm AR. People can reload the 9mm so there's never a shortage as long as you have the components, it has a similar recoil, more reliable, and the mags are not ridiculous.

The OP hasn't indicated he's looking for a .22 AR as a "trainer", he seems to be more interested in the AR platform for .22 compared to other .22 rifles. Mag size for such a small round is something to factor in when making a decision.
 
I understand the .22 trainer concept, but magazine size is now a factor in a rimfire trainer rifle? Please...

You know, what would actually be a good trainer and be reasonable in ammo cost would be a 9mm AR. People can reload the 9mm so there's never a shortage as long as you have the components, it has a similar recoil, more reliable, and the mags are not ridiculous.

The OP hasn't indicated he's looking for a .22 AR as a "trainer", he seems to be more interested in the AR platform for .22 compared to other .22 rifles. Mag size for such a small round is something to factor in when making a decision.
Yeah, it's a factor, one of many. The appeal of a .22LR trainer is to have everything as close as possible to the centerfire version. Not gonna do you a whole lot of good to practice mag changes with something that looks, feels and behaves completely different. It's also kinda helpful when your rimfire mags fit your centerfire pouches. :confused:

I'll take the .22LR any day of the week. Ammo is A LOT cheaper, even compared to handloads. I'd hate to know I had to handload a round of centerfire for every rimfire round I fired. The 9mm, in a role as a trainer, would be a lot of wasted expense. As noted, the magazines would be completely different as well.
 
I mean, if I wanted to practice mag changes I could do that at home with regular AR magazines. That's not the sort of thing that necessitates being at a range to do...
 
Or you can do it while you're actually shooting. The closer to the real thing, the better. Which is why right now I'm practicing in the dark with my weaponlights.
 
The OP hasn't indicated he's looking for a .22 AR as a "trainer", he seems to be more interested in the AR platform for .22 compared to other .22 rifles.

Just looking at something to shoot for fun with AR form factor that doesn't have the blast of .223/5.56. A 10 rd mag is fine, just like the inserts we used for military training.
 
I bought a 25 round magazine for my Ruger 10-22, so I wouldn't have to load magazines for my grandkids so often...WRONG! All of a sudden, they turned rifle shooting into "machine-gun shooting" and I was loading that darned magazine constantly! It's put away and I have no intention of taking it out again!!!
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FYI: I let them have their fun and remembered similar activities as a kid, but they're older now and are on to different things to do with guns. They and I really love to knock down mini steel silhouettes at 50 yards or so. One of the girls has qualified highly in the shooting aspect in the Air Force. The oldest boy has just finished his stint in the Army Rangers, as a Sniper. The youngest boy has shot several deer and is a very good shot.
 
Just looking at something to shoot for fun with AR form factor that doesn't have the blast of .223/5.56. A 10 rd mag is fine, just like the inserts we used for military training.
My youngest son is 16 years old and likes to shoot but doesn’t care for the noise. He always wears foam plugs and earmuffs at the same time, and still doesn’t like the noise that a rifle makes.
He has two AR’s and knows how to shoot them. I bought a CMMG conversion unit with three mags for under $200. Here he is at the range with his Red AR with the conversion.
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I like the fact that I was able to teach him how to shoot his AR using the conversion kit. When we shoot outdoors he shoots a mag or two of 5.56 and then goes back to the conversion.
My oldest son could care less for the conversion kit, he’s never cared for shooting 22 LR. He likes something with a little more power.
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Extra mags for the CMMG conversion from CMMG sale for $25. CDNN Sports has three different mags that will work at better prices.
Gray for $16.99
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Smoke for $19.99
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And black for $22.99
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I have a couple of the Gray ones and they work great.
 
I have an old 1st generation CMMG kit, before they started screwing with brass, and lockup junk. It has around 15k through it. It easily beat any other 22 I have owned for reliability, and lasted longer than several marlin 60's i have known to wear out. I use Black Dog metal feedlip mags. I have worn out the feedlips on the fiberglass CMMG mags it came with. I currently use a Griploader for it, loads 24 rounds into a 26round mag in about 4 seconds. Those last two start to deform the bullet, so I stop when there is resistance. I went through 800 rounds of 22 one afternoon in about 3 hours.
It works dirty. The last box of federal ammo I got was kinda problematic. I don't know if its the ammo or the extractor finally worn out. Anyway, its not unusual to go 500 rounds without malfunction in a range trip, so no cleaning.
Mine has been at least as accurate as a factory 10/22 or Marlin 60. It will not keep up with my Savage MK, but it will do beercans at 50 yards easily, and thats what its designed for.
These kits, as with most of the conversions use the Ciener/CMMG pattern mags, the most common.
 
You know, what would actually be a good trainer and be reasonable in ammo cost would be a 9mm AR. People can reload the 9mm so there's never a shortage as long as you have the components, it has a similar recoil, more reliable, and the mags are not ridiculous.
To go into a little more detail, a dedicated .22LR upper can be as low as ~$300. It works with any standard AR lower and swaps back & forth in seconds. Any 9mm upper is going to be a little more expensive to a lot more expensive. They also require either a magwell adapter or a dedicated lower that is NOT compatible with any other cartridge. So you can forget about conveniently swapping chamberings on the same lower, which is a lot of the appeal of a rimfire upper that uses AR-sized magazines. The cheapest I see for bullets is $31.50/500rds from Missouri Bullet. The same number of rounds of loaded .22LR ammo is 2/3's that. Add the cost of brass, primers, powder and the time you'll spend reloading them and the difference is not at all insignificant. In fact, I don't handload 9mm at all because it's just not worth the time investment or digging through the grass for empties. For example, I've gone through 500rds of .22LR the last two or three days. All it cost me was $20-$25 and no more effort than a few mouse clicks. Had I done the same with 9mm, it would've either cost me either $100 in ammo or $50 in components and a few hours processing brass and loading ammo. Big difference = same result. A 9mm AR is absolutely a valid option but as a trainer, you're spending a lot more to get the same result and using mags that are completely different. You're better off going whole hog and investing in a pistol cartridge AR because you want a pistol cartridge AR and dispense with the idea of doing it strictly as a trainer.

No, if I'm gonna do a 9mm PCC, it's gonna be because it's a 9mm. Not as an AR trainer.

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My hope is that Kel Tec either comes out with an adapter for AR's to use their CP33 magazine or makes a rifle that uses their CP magazines.
The CP33 magazine is a severe pain in the rear to load and it doesn't work when you don't load it right. For me, I'll take the uber-reliable and easy to load 25rd BDM style magazines over the CP mags. Capacity isn't everything. For a .22 pistol, I really like the Taurus TX22 with the 21rd extended mags over the CP as well. My CP went down the road and I don't miss it. If they had used a more traditional magazine, it would still be here.

As a utility rifle that doesn't need to mimic AR egos, I think the 10/22 is probably a better option because it's so user-serviceable and infinitely reconfigurable. Sucks as a trainer because it combines an AK mag release and bolt handle combined with a push button safety, which isn't compatible with any centerfire I'm aware of.

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Or you can do it while you're actually shooting. The closer to the real thing, the better. Which is why right now I'm practicing in the dark with my weaponlights.
Well in that case it's better to practice those mag changes at home anyway because the likelihood of having to use an AR for self defense at home is a lot greater than having to use it for self defense at the range.

I do like the idea of practicing activating a weapon mounted light in the dark.
 
Just looking at something to shoot for fun with AR form factor that doesn't have the blast of .223/5.56. A 10 rd mag is fine, just like the inserts we used for military training.
If you don't care about being able to swap a .22 upper onto the exact same lower, I would consider looking at a 9mm AR, especially if you have Glock pistols.
 
I don’t follow, what do you mean?
Look at the picture above: the mag is the same size as a 20 rd straight mag, but it only holds 15 rds of .22. I've got 10 rd mags for other .22 caliber guns that are about the same size as a pack of chewing gum. They take up very little space and weigh nothing. If I'm gonna be stuck carrying mags around, I want them to be sized to the cartridge to reduce size and weight.

If the point is to only ever use a .22 AR as a trainer then that doesn't matter, but if it's going to be used for any other use a dedicated .22 like a 10/22 or Marlin Model 60 or Mossberg Plinkster is a better choice.
 
Look at the picture above: the mag is the same size as a 20 rd straight mag, but it only holds 15 rds of .22. I've got 10 rd mags for other .22 caliber guns that are about the same size as a pack of chewing gum. They take up very little space and weigh nothing. If I'm gonna be stuck carrying mags around, I want them to be sized to the cartridge to reduce size and weight.

If the point is to only ever use a .22 AR as a trainer then that doesn't matter, but if it's going to be used for any other use a dedicated .22 like a 10/22 or Marlin Model 60 or Mossberg Plinkster is a better choice.

You put your finger right on it. The .22 mags are the same dimensions as the .223 mags for that very reason.

Which is why some also favor the drop-in conversion unit. They get to use cheap .22lr in their actual AR.

If this isn't what one is after there are other, possibly better options.
 
I like the fact that my 223/556, 300 BO, 30 RAR, 450 BM, and 22 LR magazines all fit in the same pouches. Yes the 22 LR magazines are rather larger than strictly needed but when you compare a 25rd Blackdog AR 22LR magazine to a 25rd BX-25 10/22 magazine there are not that much different in overall bulk.
 
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Look at the picture above: the mag is the same size as a 20 rd straight mag, but it only holds 15 rds of .22. I've got 10 rd mags for other .22 caliber guns that are about the same size as a pack of chewing gum. They take up very little space and weigh nothing. If I'm gonna be stuck carrying mags around, I want them to be sized to the cartridge to reduce size and weight.

If the point is to only ever use a .22 AR as a trainer then that doesn't matter, but if it's going to be used for any other use a dedicated .22 like a 10/22 or Marlin Model 60 or Mossberg Plinkster is a better choice.
How are you gonna use a smaller mag in an AR magwell??? If a Marlin 60 or Mossberg Plinkster is in the running, you weren't really looking for a .22LR AR in the first place. :confused:
 
My youngest son is 16 years old and likes to shoot but doesn’t care for the noise. He always wears foam plugs and earmuffs at the same time, and still doesn’t like the noise that a rifle makes.
He has two AR’s and knows how to shoot them. I bought a CMMG conversion unit with three mags for under $200. Here he is at the range with his Red AR with the conversion.
View attachment 931979

I like the fact that I was able to teach him how to shoot his AR using the conversion kit. When we shoot outdoors he shoots a mag or two of 5.56 and then goes back to the conversion.
My oldest son could care less for the conversion kit, he’s never cared for shooting 22 LR. He likes something with a little more power.
View attachment 931982

The oldest son doesn't seem to have more than earplugs when shooting the AR indoors. That doesn't seem to be enough protection,given the apparent muzzle blast.
 
I bought my son a MP AR15-22 after he graduated from Combat Medical school in the National Guard. With Guard duties and college he is obvious on a Budget. 223. was not in the game. The thing is, the gun has turned out to be a whole lot of fun and gets a lot of use. Reliability has exceeded all expectations. Is it the same weight as the real gun, no, but there are concessions in everything. A 223. would just sitting in a closet now with the current situation going on in the US. And Stock piling ammo earlier was not a viable choice for him.
 
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My marlin 985 will shoot a lot better than my cmmg upper maybe I got a lemon but not impressed with accuracy
 
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