Hunting Cabins on National Wilderness

WrongHanded · Jul 27, 2020

From what little I know about it, building structures isn't allowed in National Wilderness areas. Does anyone know for sure?

I don't want to build a cabin, but I did find one under construction whilst scouting an area for potential bear hunting opportunities. My concern here is not the structure itself, but the feelings that may be built along with it as to some sort of perceived property and hunting rights on the part of the builder.

Namely that they may feel they own the cabin (built with trees from th area) and the land on which is sits. And potentially become territorial if I were to encounter them.

The most obvious course of action is to just stay clear, and not hunt there. But it looks like a prime area thick with various berries, a year round water source, and plenty of cover, limited human travel, and lots of wildlife. So I want to hunt it.

What would you do?

.308 Norma · Jul 27, 2020

WrongHanded said:
The most obvious course of action is to just stay clear, and not hunt there.

WrongHanded, are you sure that's National Wilderness land someone is building a cabin on? If you are sure, staying clear and not hunting there would not be my "obvious" course of action - not by a long shot.
I'd go to the authorities, the Forest Service and anyone else I could think of. If that really is National Wilderness land, it belongs to you, and me, and I wouldn't stand for squatters building a hunting cabin on it anymore than I would stand for dopers planting marijuana on it.

Nature Boy · Jul 27, 2020

I know that structures are not permitted on wildlife management areas

WrongHanded · Jul 27, 2020

.308 Norma said:
WrongHanded, are you sure that's National Wilderness land someone is building a cabin on? If you are sure, staying clear and not hunting there would not be my "obvious" course of action - not by a long shot.
I'd go to the authorities, the Forest Service and anyone else I could think of. If that really is National Wilderness land, it belongs to you, and me, and I wouldn't stand for squatters building a hunting cabin on it anymore than I would stand for dopers planting marijuana on it.

So, it's marked as NW on the National Geographic map I have, and also on the OnX Hunt app. I haven't checked USGS yet. I suppose it's possible it was overlooked during mapping. I may enquire with the FS about it for clarification. But it's definitely inside the NW boundaries, which are inside NF boundaries.

.455_Hunter · Jul 27, 2020

My friend's family has a cabin on a mining claim in a Colorado wilderness area that predates any "designation" by decades. The Forest Service would prefer it didn't exist, but the family works the claim enough so that it is still considered active and can't be destroyed. I don't have a problem with a historical building such as that remaining in place.

However, I seriously doubt any new construction "cabin" has any legitimacy, and the builders are just counting nobody finding it or caring. Just call you local NF office and discuss what you saw- I am sure they will take an interest and can determine if it's on public land or a small parcel of private (which does occur).

Armored farmer · Jul 27, 2020

Can you find the area on Google Earth, or other imagery that confirms the location on fed property.?
Email the info to the proper office.
It sounds suspicious to me.

WrongHanded · Jul 27, 2020

Armored farmer said:
Can you find the area on Google Earth, or other imagery that confirms the location on fed property.?
Email the info to the proper office.
It sounds suspicious to me.

I took a look on Google Earth. It's pretty hard to see what's there. And honestly the image may predate the structure, the wood looks freshly cut.

But after looking at a NF interactive map, and OnX, and the Nat Geo map, it sure looks to be in the middle of the National Wilderness area. I know where the spot is because of some very distinct geological features I was aiming for on my decent from one of the ridges.

It may be a replacement for an old cabin (I heard of that from a guy I met closer to the road). And the property may be part of a mining claim because there are a few mines in the area. But it's not showing up as private property on any map I've yet found.

Riomouse911 · Jul 27, 2020

.308 Norma said:
WrongHanded, are you sure that's National Wilderness land someone is building a cabin on? If you are sure, staying clear and not hunting there would not be my "obvious" course of action - not by a long shot.
I'd go to the authorities, the Forest Service and anyone else I could think of. If that really is National Wilderness land, it belongs to you, and me, and I wouldn't stand for squatters building a hunting cabin on it anymore than I would stand for dopers planting marijuana on it.

The dope growers have been a problem for ages, this sure fits that type of profile. Especially the water source part. I, too would let the USFS know.

Stay safe.

Armored farmer · Jul 27, 2020

WrongHanded said:
I took a look on Google Earth. It's pretty hard to see what's there. And honestly the image may predate the structure, the wood looks freshly cut.

View attachment 932243

But after looking at a NF interactive map, and OnX, and the Nat Geo map, it sure looks to be in the middle of the National Wilderness area. I know where the spot is because of some very distinct geological features I was aiming for on my decent from one of the ridges.

It may be a replacement for an old cabin (I heard of that from a guy I met closer to the road). And the property may be part of a mining claim because there are a few mines in the area. But it's not showing up as private property on any map I've yet found.

Yeah Google earth is not always current. The last time I looked at my place there were no grain bins. They have been up for four years.

jmr40 · Jul 27, 2020

There are patches of private property completely surrounded by both federal and state property. The only access is across public land. There are patches of federally owned property that are completely surrounded by private property, the only access is across private property and at times this is difficult. Most of this is due to someone several generations back refusing to sell when the government bought up the property.

It can be interesting to use one of the hunting GPS maps. In fact I'd not hunt on a lot of the public land in states like Colorado without one. The property lines are usually not well marked, if at all. It is up the hunter to know where public and private land is. And it is easy to end up in the wrong place

DocRock · Jul 27, 2020

It happens. If it's National Wilderness, the structure is illegal. Your thinking seems solid - avoid. You can bring it to the attention of the Forest Service. They should have someone available to look at it in 10 - 12 years...

WrongHanded · Jul 27, 2020

jmr40 said:
There are patches of private property completely surrounded by both federal and state property. The only access is across public land. There are patches of federally owned property that are completely surrounded by private property, the only access is across private property and at times this is difficult. Most of this is due to someone several generations back refusing to sell when the government bought up the property.

It can be interesting to use one of the hunting GPS maps. In fact I'd not hunt on a lot of the public land in states like Colorado without one. The property lines are usually not well marked, if at all. It is up the hunter to know where public and private land is. And it is easy to end up in the wrong place

Yeah, I've seen some of that. I suppose that's another good reason to go to the NF office. Then I can make sure. After all, if it is actually private property, I don't want to trespass. Though I didn't notice any signage claiming such.

daniel craig · Jul 27, 2020

WrongHanded said:
From what little I know about it, building structures isn't allowed in National Wilderness areas. Does anyone know for sure?

I don't want to build a cabin, but I did find one under construction whilst scouting an area for potential bear hunting opportunities. My concern here is not the structure itself, but the feelings that may be built along with it as to some sort of perceived property and hunting rights on the part of the builder.

Namely that they may feel they own the cabin (built with trees from th area) and the land on which is sits. And potentially become territorial if I were to encounter them.

The most obvious course of action is to just stay clear, and not hunt there. But it looks like a prime area thick with various berries, a year round water source, and plenty of cover, limited human travel, and lots of wildlife. So I want to hunt it.

What would you do?

Record the GPS location and report it to the agency that manages the land. That’s what I’d do. If they want to sort it out they will. If it’s a legit claim, which I doubt, then the feds won’t do anything. If it’s an illegal structure it won’t be there too long after your report I shouldn’t think.

That land belongs to all of us. Not just that one guy.

Highland Lofts · Jul 27, 2020

If it is something built on federal or state owned property I take advantage of it while it is there.i found a cabin built out of trees forvthe ares. It was a nice little cabin and other people used it as well.

Once I found a good size TeePee someone built on State Land. There was some bed frames made from saplings and a small table with a TeePee log,
(Note book).
It was interesting to read who found it, who stayed over night there and the reasons why they were there.

I found it while out spring turkey hunting.

Patocazador · Jul 27, 2020

OK. The wonderful NFS sometimes trades land for choice land that is of more benefit to wildlife or endangered species. This goes on at the state level too. The problem would be access since no motorized vehicles are allowed in a wilderness area.

There are no governmental rules that can't be waived if you have enough $$$$ and/or influence. Like it or not the gov't is not looking out for our interests. This cabin may be illegal or it could be a "sweetheart" deal.

daniel craig · Jul 27, 2020

Patocazador said:
OK. The wonderful NFS sometimes trades land for choice land that is of more benefit to wildlife or endangered species. This goes on at the state level too. The problem would be access since no motorized vehicles are allowed in a wilderness area.

There are no governmental rules that can't be waived if you have enough $$$$ and/or influence. Like it or not the gov't is not looking out for our interests. This cabin may be illegal or it could be a "sweetheart" deal.

Those don’t happen as often as you’d think. 100% this cabin is pure and simple illegal and no deal has been made.

WrongHanded · Jul 27, 2020

I took a detour on my way home, and stopped at the FS Office. Which was closed due to Covid-19. Called the number on the door and got an answering service. Then got a call back from a volunteer.

I had to walk him through the directions to get to the place, and he said he'd send it up the chain. I requested they give me a call back when they figured out what the deal was, so I didn't have to find out the hard way that it didn't get addressed.

DocRock · Jul 27, 2020

WrongHanded said:
I took a detour on my way home, and stopped at the FS Office. Which was closed due to Covid-19. Called the number on the door and got an answering service. Then got a call back from a volunteer.

I had to walk him through the directions to get to the place, and he said he'd send it up the chain. I requested they give me a call back when they figured out what the deal was, so I didn't have to find out the hard way that it didn't get addressed.

You will never hear from them again.

3Crows · Jul 27, 2020

Write a letter to the proper authority and request a signature receipt.

sage5907 · Jul 28, 2020

I know a family who owned a cabin surrounded by Natural Forest near Buffalo, Wyoming. The family had acquired the cabin in the early 1900's probably before the area became a Natural Forest. The restriction on the property was that it could be owned and occupied by the owner until the owner died and then the property reverted back to the Federal Government. It was like a "Grandfather Clause" as when a city acquires land and the original owners of the land don't have to abide by City restrictions as long as they occupy the property.

WrongHanded · Jul 28, 2020

So a little history I dug up. There was a homestead in the area and a cabin, which was attached to a mining claim. The wife lived their til she died in 1999. The family then tore down the cabin because the land had to be returned to USFS. If that's true, I can't see there being a second claim in the immediate area; it's not big enough for that to have been practical. Also seems like the historical documentation I looked over online would have included any information to that effect.

Milt1 · Jul 28, 2020

We have some Montana friends that own a cabin in the Belt Mountains that has been grandfathered, meaning that once this family dies out it will revert to Federal property.

Hunting Cabins on National Wilderness

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