My concealed carry situation

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edwardware said:
Shoot your ammo once or twice a year. I.ve been doing it for years.

If you're really curious, shoot your ammo over a chrony, at New, 6mos, 12mos, 18mos in the hot car. I'll bet you can't tell the difference.

Also, I would not manipulate the gun in the car; store it like you carry it.
Click to expand...

I like the idea of storing some ammo in a vehicle and testing it over a chrony. Would a couple boxes of different brands of 9mm suffice?
 
Kleanbore said:
So, it's okay to __________ as long as one does not get caught?
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...and no one is negatively affected.

In this instance, yes. It's not illegal. Your whole argument has been about "breaking one's word". If no one knows but you, it's just your own feelings you're wrestling with.

But go ahead and change your argument some more.
 
Keanbore, I agree, its ok unless you get caught. Most places have those policies to protect them from being sued. I worked with one for a few years with a strict anti gun policy. I carried a snubby in my front pocket. the whole time i worked there, no one knew. And my hours were from 5pm to 2am. I would rather loose my job from using it then be caught needing it. I would not suggest someone do that, but that's what i did. And i do not regret it. We had training in case of active robberies and such incase they got in the building after hours. The training was to comply and do what ever the robber said to do. Which would help ALOT!!! and this was back in the early 2000's. My new employer is different. Everyone here packs and keeps rifles in there truck
 
Robbins290 said:
Keanbore, I agree, its ok unless you get caught.
Click to expand...
Well, it won't hurt you unless you get caught.

Robbins290 said:
I would rather loose my job from using it then be caught needing it.
Click to expand...
One would also lose his job if it were discovered.

Robbins290 said:
The training was to comply and do what ever the robber said to do. Which would help ALOT!!!
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Good. The employer did not expect employees to try to defend company money. Most companies even tell their security people that.

I am looking at this from the standpoint of someone who had a long carer with a company that provided a safe workspace. The chance of having the gun discovered during period appeared much higher than the risk of needing it in the office.

Had I believed myself unsafe at work, I wouldn't have stayed there.
 
My problem with the whole deal is, if you have to use the weapon to defend yourself or even present the weapon and you hurt someone you are going to jail and will be prosecuted and probably sued by the perp. I know it's wrong to think this way but, if I am in a situation, say a grocery store, gas station etc. I will think of the consiquences of my actions before I take action. and I know this delay can get me killed. They like to put the blame on the good guy. It's easier
 
deadeye dick said:
My problem with the whole deal is, if you have to use the weapon to defend yourself or even present the weapon and you hurt someone you are going to jail and will be prosecuted and probably sued by the perp. I know it's wrong to think this way but, if I am in a situation, say a grocery store, gas station etc. I will think of the consiquences of my actions before I take action. and I know this delay can get me killed. They like to put the blame on the good guy. It's easier
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I added the bold because it's the relevant part of your post.

If you have to defend yourself with a firearm, it should be because you are in grave danger. So logically it stands to reason that if you don't use it in that situation, you may come out of it dead.

This aspect is no different than any other scenario regarding defensive use of a firearm. It's serious business.

Compared to dying, or having to shoot someone in self defense only to then deal with the legal and financial ramifications; find a new job is nothing.
 
3Crows said:
I would not encourage somebody to break their company policy as these policies are zero tolerance and depending upon the employer could result in various things that are bad for a career and one of them would be immediate termination.
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The OP stated very clearly that he is permitted to keep the gun at his car at work

Smokepole14 said:
Ok guys I need your opinion and help on this. My place of employment does not allow concealed carry inside the building, however, we are allowed to keep firearms in our vehicle in the parking lot.
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FL-NC said:
Our ammo and explosives in afg. was stored in shipping containers with no temp controls. In the winter you could safely store meat in there, and in the summer you could probably steam shrimp inside of one. Of course, we also carried the ammo in vehicles, in our weapons, and on our bodies in the same conditions. It always worked as advertised.
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Yeah it takes temps that would make a human extremely uncomfortable to effect most modern ammo. As for carrying in the building against policy, a job is a contract. They agree to pay you for work and you agree to follow their rules.

Keep it in your car, don’t worry about the temps.
 
Smokepole14 said:
Leave the ammo in the hot car
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this has my vote. you keep loading and unloading, sooner or later you will get mixed up and be driving around with an unloaded gun.

i kept my gun under the front seat of my truck all day, six days a week, for eight years. it gets real hot in phoenix, arizona in the summertime.

i would not worry about the ammo getting too hot.

luck,

murf
 
There was a place where the employer/owner had a no weapons policy but the employer/owner kept a weapon in their office. Apparently the weapon was discovered by someone and that someone removed the ammunition from the weapon. At some point the employer/owner discovered that the ammunition had been removed. Over the intercom ( Like the movie Mister Roberts) he voiced his displeasure. The previous is not BS this actually happened!
 
Best to find out for YOUR ammo and YOUR gun. Its easy to do:

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rotate-carry-ammo.802960/page-2#post-10254066

Test a bunch of loading/unloading cycles, excessive heat, freezing cold, and/or 99% humidity for months at a time. Maybe cycling between hot and cold, humid and dry many times. You decide what tests make sense for you.

And only then will you know, with more certainty than WE can give you, that your gun and ammo is likely to work if you ever need it to.
 
WrongHanded said:
"One's word."

If a pistol is carried in a pocket and no one else ever knows about it, the only way "one's word" comes into it, is in one's own mind.

Personally, I feel that if an employer can't protect me from violence in the workplace, I have the right to do that myself. If it's a secure facility with guards, metal detectors, fences and key card access, that's one thing.

But if the workplace is open enough that any one can just walk in off the street, that's just another "gun free zone". And we all know what they're good for.

You can of course argue that anyone who doesn't like it can get a job somewhere else, but employers specifically mention the prohibitions of weapons in company handbooks now, for liability reasons. I've never worked anywhere that it wasn't in the company handbook. So that's a pretty limiting factor if you don't want to break "one's word", but you do want to protect yourself and make a living.

My outlook is if someone is working hard, doing the job well, not making waves, and making their employer money, the employer is getting exactly what they need from an employee. And if no weapons are seen or discussed, no weapons are present. Best if everyone just does their job.
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My current place of employment has guards at the entrances, gates that need keycard access to get past the guards to the stairs/elevators, keycards to access each floor off the elevator. This past January some rando off the street was found on one of the levels just walking around.

The last place I worked had the same level of security but we were on one level so you needed a keycard to get into most rooms from the main hallways. In order to test security occasionally they would hire people to try to "tailgate" into the building and they were tasked with making copies of papers on peoples desk and leaving with those copies. Almost every time those "agents" were successful.

Or heck, anyone remember that 5/3 shooting in Cinci? That was just down the street from me, and my SIL worked there at the time. He just came into the main lobby were he didn't need to get past security, where thousands of people walk through every day just going about their business.

It's one thing to "break your word" and do something unethical like steal from your company. But to simply want to protect your life so you can make it home to your family? Well, I'll just say I never realized there were so many busy body's on here.
 
My first question is how many people at your employment know you have firearms and have a concealed carry permit? Are there a number of people you are aware of that carry firearms that work where you do? Have there been an incidents of car theft in the parking lot?

A cabled lock box under the seat would be some protection. Earnest thieves who are aware of company policy and know several or more folks carry firearms would be prepared to extricate the lock box. As to the ammo, I wouldn't worry to much about it if you are in the habit of shooting often, as has been previously said. Then I would contact your homeowner policy agent, get the firearms you leave in your car appraised and then placed on an All Risk rider on your policy. In fact it's a good idea to do that with all your firearms as they would be covered with no depreciation or deductible for virtually anything including losing them.
 
Smokepole14 said:
Ok guys I need your opinion and help on this. My place of employment does not allow concealed carry inside the building, however, we are allowed to keep firearms in our vehicle in the parking lot. My problem with this is it gets hot inside my car( car color is black so it soaks in the heat ). My worry is when it gets up to 105+ degrees inside my car how bad is it on the ammo? I know good quality carry ammo is supposed to be good at being in extreme temperature changes. Typical iwb carry in the summer It’s exposed to body heat, sweat, and winter freezing temperatures. I know that it’s good to rotate your carry ammo for this reason. Ok here’s what I do so let me know if you think it’s a good idea or not. I leave my firearm in the car but I unload it and carry my mags inside work in my bag. That way my ammo stays in room temp environment. Which brings my next worry, when I leave work I load my firearm back. So does that hurt the ammo as in bullet setback and increase the pressure in the cartridge? I carry Hornady critical defense 9mm as my ammo. It does have the cannelure to supposedly help with the setback of constant loading unloading the same round over and over. So what do you guys recommend? Leave the ammo in the hot car or continue loading unloading as I currently am doin?
Click to expand...
In my experience, Hornady exhibits some of the worst setback of any mass produced ammo out there. I compared it to Speer and Federal HST ammo in a repeated chambering experiment. After 20 rechambers, the Hornady showed more setback than the Speer, and the HSTs were the best. As in little if any setback on the HSTs. That's one comparison so take it for what it is, a very small sample size. In some testing with my chronograph, I also found Hornady ammo to have the most exaggerated velocity numbers when comparing similar barrel lengths. HSTs were the most consistent.

Again, small samples, and not statistically relevant, but for me it was enough that I have stopped buying Hornady ammo. I also feel their bullet tech is not as good as Speer's bonded, or Federal HST nonbonded build.

So first and foremost, I recommend changing ammo brand.

More importantly, and germane to your question, I suggest not repeatedly chambering a round. Just train to chamber a round as quickly as possible in a defense encounter. I know it isn't ideal, but if I was going to carry a magazine into my work environment every day, I would be concerned about setback as well. If I insisted on keeping it chambered, I would likely just plan on rotating a new top round into the gun frequently if my ammo showed any setback.

The other option is to switch to a gun model that allows for dropping a round into the chamber from the ejection port and closing the chamber, without damaging the extractor. My Beretta 92 explicitly said in the manual that the 92 was one of the few designs out there that allowed for this. You may solve your problem that way.

Another suggestion if it wasn't already made is to buy Ammo Armor sleeves for your magazines.

https://ammo-armor.com/
 
460Shooter said:
More importantly, and germane to your question, I suggest not repeatedly chambering a round. Just train to chamber a round as quickly as possible in a defense encounter. I know it isn't ideal, but if I was going to carry a magazine into my work environment every day, I would be concerned about setback as well. If I insisted on keeping it chambered, I would likely just plan on rotating a new top round into the gun frequently if my ammo showed any setback.

The other option is to switch to a gun model that allows for dropping a round into the chamber from the ejection port and closing the chamber, without damaging the extractor. My Beretta 92 explicitly said in the manual that the 92 was one of the few designs out there that allowed for this. You may solve your problem that way.
Click to expand...

Or he could just leave the gun loaded and lock it up in his car like that
 
bassjam said:
The last place I worked had the same level of security but we were on one level so you needed a keycard to get into most rooms from the main hallways. In order to test security occasionally they would hire people to try to "tailgate" into the building and they were tasked with making copies of papers on peoples desk and leaving with those copies. Almost every time those "agents" were successful.
Click to expand...

I work as a security guard. Based on my experience the company culture at your last place of employment was to back the employee over the guard regardless of circumstances. I would not be surprised to find out that on several of those tailgating incidents the guard said something and was told by an "irate employee" to MYOFB or I'll make sure you're unemployed by lunchtime today."

I worked on a city-owned site several years ago. One morning a city employee showed up and told the guard he didn't feel like showing his ID and he was going through the gate. The guard informed him that he wasn't permitted open the gate unless the employee showed ID and the employee tried to run him over. The guard put his hand on his gun and ordered the employee to halt. Remember, the employee had tried to deliberately hit him with his car. The employee showed his ID, was permitted entry to the facility and the guard reported the incident. The employee also reported the incident and filed a complaint. The Security Administrator (city employee) review the video and decided that the guard was justified and had not overreacted. The security provider (my employer) immediately filed a complaint against the city employee and was told that "Bob" was an employee of the city with 25 years good standing and an impeccable reputation. Surely it was just a misunderstanding and the matter was dropped. The guard was "routinely transferred" to another site and lost his day shift and his seniority a couple of weeks later.

If the guard had just let the guy onto the site he would have been subject to immediate termination on the first offense.


There were several City policies that if the guards failed to enforce they could and did lose their jobs but if a city employee refused to comply nothing was done. When you're faced with no-win situations like that on a daily basis you learn very quickly not to make waves.
 
Whether or not I carry on the clock against company policy has always been circumstantial but in 2018 two things happened that changed my mind forever.

In May of 2018 a security guard who worked for the same company I do was stabbed to death by a homeless tweaker when he asked the guy to leave the property the guard was assigned to guard. I have always kept a gun in my car at work but after that I envisioned myself dying just outside my car and having my last thought be "If only I could reach my gun." I decided that no matter what I am NOT going to die like that. There's been a gun in my pocket every shift since.

On Thanksgiving morning 2018 a Methed up truck driver arrived at my site at 5 am and threw a fit when I told him that there wasn't anyone on site to accept his delivery. When I told him I wasn't permitted to allow him on site to deliver the load he took a swing at me. He only stopped because I reached in my pocket and he realized I was about to draw a gun. His co-driver (who did nothing to stop his partner) called the national headquarters of the company I was contracted to and they told me to let the guy in. When I told them I wasn't comfortable doing that because he had tried to attack me they told me to let him in anyway. They also forbade me to call the police.

My employer Does. Not. Give. A. Damn. About. Me. It's cheaper to pay my wife the Worker's Comp death benefits than it is to pay a law suit if a guard shoots someone. So they leave me alone with nothing more than a radio (with no one on the other end) and a flashlight to defend myself in some of the worst neighborhoods in town and they expect me to make Citizen's Arrests (I simply don't). So I carry a gun and I don't really care about breaking faith with an employer who broke faith with me a long time ago.

Having said all that,

I do not discuss guns with my coworkers (or client employees) in any context. I never make any statement that indicates that I'm armed at work and I never question my employer about whether or not it's OK for me to have a gun at work. Because 1. I know what they're going to say and 2. All I'm doing is giving them cause to show up on my shift and search my car or personal belongings. That is in the company handbook and I've already decided that if it ever happens whether there's any contraband in my car/belongings/ locker or not I'm going to resign immediately and leave.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
I work as a security guard. Based on my experience the company culture at your last place of employment was to back the employee over the guard regardless of circumstances. I would not be surprised to find out that on several of those tailgating incidents the guard said something and was told by an "irate employee" to MYOFB or I'll make sure you're unemployed by lunchtime today."

I worked on a city-owned site several years ago. One morning a city employee showed up and told the guard he didn't feel like showing his ID and he was going through the gate. The guard informed him that he wasn't permitted open the gate unless the employee showed ID and the employee tried to run him over. The guard put his hand on his gun and ordered the employee to halt. Remember, the employee had tried to deliberately hit him with his car. The employee showed his ID, was permitted entry to the facility and the guard reported the incident. The employee also reported the incident and filed a complaint. The Security Administrator (city employee) review the video and decided that the guard was justified and had not overreacted. The security provider (my employer) immediately filed a complaint against the city employee and was told that "Bob" was an employee of the city with 25 years good standing and an impeccable reputation. Surely it was just a misunderstanding and the matter was dropped. The guard was "routinely transferred" to another site and lost his day shift and his seniority a couple of weeks later.

If the guard had just let the guy onto the site he would have been subject to immediate termination on the first offense.


There were several City policies that if the guards failed to enforce they could and did lose their jobs but if a city employee refused to comply nothing was done. When you're faced with no-win situations like that on a daily basis you learn very quickly not to make waves.
Click to expand...

I'm not aware of any instances where an employee was told a guard to F-off, but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Nearly all of our guards though are very young guys in their early 20's, or older gentlemen in their late 60's-70s, and I think it's just an easy job for them. They aren't armed with anything but a walkie-talkie. I can't tell you the amount of times I'll walk through a door and they're either asleep or have their headphones on watching a video on their phone.

I also forgot to mention that 4 years ago there was a stabbing on our sidewalk, and about a month after that there was a shooting on our sidewalk. In neither instance was an employee involved, but my building is downtown and I need to walk a little over a block from the parking garage to the entrance so you see all kinds of characters on the street. Three years ago a woman was shot in the face right outside our garage; that was at 3AM as she was leaving the bar she works at that's on the other side of our garage. Point is, a firearm locked in your car isn't doing you much good and your building's security can't be prepared for every situation.
 
Trunk Monkey said:
Whether or not I carry on the clock against company policy has always been circumstantial but in 2018 two things happened that changed my mind forever.

In May of 2018 a security guard who worked for the same company I do was stabbed to death by a homeless tweaker when he asked the guy to leave the property the guard was assigned to guard. I have always kept a gun in my car at work but after that I envisioned myself dying just outside my car and having my last thought be "If only I could reach my gun." I decided that no matter what I am NOT going to die like that. There's been a gun in my pocket every shift since.

On Thanksgiving morning 2018 a Methed up truck driver arrived at my site at 5 am and threw a fit when I told him that there wasn't anyone on site to accept his delivery. When I told him I wasn't permitted to allow him on site to deliver the load he took a swing at me. He only stopped because I reached in my pocket and he realized I was about to draw a gun. His co-driver (who did nothing to stop his partner) called the national headquarters of the company I was contracted to and they told me to let the guy in. When I told them I wasn't comfortable doing that because he had tried to attack me they told me to let him in anyway. They also forbade me to call the police.

My employer Does. Not. Give. A. Damn. About. Me. It's cheaper to pay my wife the Worker's Comp death benefits than it is to pay a law suit if a guard shoots someone. So they leave me alone with nothing more than a radio (with no one on the other end) and a flashlight to defend myself in some of the worst neighborhoods in town and they expect me to make Citizen's Arrests (I simply don't). So I carry a gun and I don't really care about breaking faith with an employer who broke faith with me a long time ago.

Having said all that,

I do not discuss guns with my coworkers (or client employees) in any context. I never make any statement that indicates that I'm armed at work and I never question my employer about whether or not it's OK for me to have a gun at work. Because 1. I know what they're going to say and 2. All I'm doing is giving them cause to show up on my shift and search my car or personal belongings. That is in the company handbook and I've already decided that if it ever happens whether there's any contraband in my car/belongings/ locker or not I'm going to resign immediately and leave.
Click to expand...

I don’t blame you at all. I would most definitely carry if I was in your situation. Obviously your employer doesn’t seem to care about your/others safety.
 
460Shooter said:
In my experience, Hornady exhibits some of the worst setback of any mass produced ammo out there. I compared it to Speer and Federal HST ammo in a repeated chambering experiment. After 20 rechambers, the Hornady showed more setback than the Speer, and the HSTs were the best. As in little if any setback on the HSTs. That's one comparison so take it for what it is, a very small sample size. In some testing with my chronograph, I also found Hornady ammo to have the most exaggerated velocity numbers when comparing similar barrel lengths. HSTs were the most consistent.

Again, small samples, and not statistically relevant, but for me it was enough that I have stopped buying Hornady ammo. I also feel their bullet tech is not as good as Speer's bonded, or Federal HST nonbonded build.

So first and foremost, I recommend changing ammo brand.

More importantly, and germane to your question, I suggest not repeatedly chambering a round. Just train to chamber a round as quickly as possible in a defense encounter. I know it isn't ideal, but if I was going to carry a magazine into my work environment every day, I would be concerned about setback as well. If I insisted on keeping it chambered, I would likely just plan on rotating a new top round into the gun frequently if my ammo showed any setback.

The other option is to switch to a gun model that allows for dropping a round into the chamber from the ejection port and closing the chamber, without damaging the extractor. My Beretta 92 explicitly said in the manual that the 92 was one of the few designs out there that allowed for this. You may solve your problem that way.

Another suggestion if it wasn't already made is to buy Ammo Armor sleeves for your magazines.

https://ammo-armor.com/
Click to expand...

I have some gold dots and hst and I’ve carried both in my rotation. I stick with the hornady due to its more accurate and better recoil in my handgun. I just simply shoot the hornady better and I’m more confident with it. I believe out of the three all will do their job just fine, I just feel like with the hornady I do my part better. I try to shoot my carry ammo often due to the hot nature it gets stored and I’m gettin low on the cd so I actually may start back carrying the hst. I haven’t tried any setback test with either I may need to give that a try and see what I get. Thanks for the reply!
 
Smokepole14 said:
I don’t blame you at all. I would most definitely carry if I was in your situation. Obviously your employer doesn’t seem to care about your/others safety.
Click to expand...


To be clear I wasn't suggesting that you should carry a gun at work against company policy. I was simply explaining why I do.

I will say that it has been my experience that you're better off not discussing whether or not you own guns with your coworkers or whether or not you have a concealed handgun permit. Because if you tell one person your whole company will know about it within 2 weeks
 
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