Most modern “battle/combat” style rifles seem backwards to me.

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daniel craig

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So, my first introduction into rifles designed for war fighting, especially semi-auto rifles was with the m4 carbine. I’ve shot a lot of other such arms between then and now and one thing that gets me, is that for me the all seem to be designed backwards.

I want to be able to manipulate the bolt, mag release, and all other controls with my left hand (being right handed) and without having to turn the rifle to the 90 degrees to get to the things I need. The only thing that should be on the right side is the mag release (but really it should be ambi) and the ejection port.

Am I just being dumb or has anyone else felt like this too?

Additionally: I feel this way about bolt guns too. Right handed bolt guns should be fully manipulatable (made that up myself lol) with the left hand.

Edit: while most of the discussion is focusing on the M4/AR platform, I find this to be true even with AK and M14 styled rifles too.
 
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daniel craig said:
I want to be able to manipulate the bolt, mag release, and all other controls with my left hand (being right handed) and without having to turn the rifle to the 90 degrees to get to the things I need.
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I cannot hold up many rifles solely with my dominant hand, due to the lack of leverage. If I want to be able to work the gun at the shoulder, I need some basic functions operable by my dominant hand.
 
For the AR, operations which can be done with the rifle pointed on target are done with the right hand, such the left hand, the support hand, remains able to support the rifle. Mag changes and subsequent chamber charging actions are done by the left hand.

I often shoot right handed bolt rifles left handed, and I will say flat out, it’s an illogical hypothesis to believe a right handed bolt gun should be operated with the left hand (mirror image to what I do). If you’re breaking position between shots, you can get away with whatever manipulation you want, but if you are keeping the rifle shouldered, firing from anything but prone or benched, and staying on the gun, you’re losing ground to use your support hand to manipulate the bolt.
 
I’m not sure I understand the premise.
When I am holding an AR, all but the magazine release is operated by my left hand.

The mag release is operated by my trigger finger. If it can operate a trigger, or your other fingers for those unfortunate carpenters, it can operate a mag release.
Just as easily, reaching around the mag well with the left meat hook can drop the magazine before refreshing it, in the event of injury.
Further, there is ambidextrous magazine releases on the market.

But like @Conelrad , all I can think of is the FAL. As far as battle rifle.(90s villain boss rifle of choice.)
Is there others?
Are there ambidextrous AKs? Or do they just re-educate you?;)
 
Over all as a right handed shooter I find the controls on the typical AR-15 perfectly adequate. I can do most of the needed weapon manipulations and my strong hand never has to leave the grip. I do have one ambidextrous AR lower. The Ambi mag release is neither here nor there since I rarely shoot left handed. The ambi safety is in the same boat, and I have to make sure to put the short throw lever on the strong side so it does not bite my hand. Now the ambi bolt release is awesome. The ability to use my strong hand index finger to lock the bolt back, again without changing my grip on the gun is very handy.
 
Varminterror said:
For the AR, operations which can be done with the rifle pointed on target are done with the right hand, such the left hand, the support hand, remains able to support the rifle. Mag changes and subsequent chamber charging actions are done by the left hand.
Click to expand...
I find I can support the rifle just fine with my right hand on the pistol grip and I think it’s more intuitive to me, to do that than to take my firing hand off the weapon to manipulate controls.
 
daniel craig said:
So, my first introduction into rifles designed for war fighting, especially semi-auto rifles was with the m4 carbine. I’ve shot a lot of other such arms between then and now and one thing that gets me, is that for me the all seem to be designed backwards.

I want to be able to manipulate the bolt, mag release, and all other controls with my left hand (being right handed) and without having to turn the rifle to the 90 degrees to get to the things I need. The only thing that should be on the right side is the mag release (but really it should be ambi) and the ejection port.

Am I just being dumb or has anyone else felt like this too?

Additionally: I feel this way about bolt guns too. Right handed bolt guns should be fully manipulatable (made that up myself lol) with the left hand.
Click to expand...
Hard Charger makes a nice left-side charging kit which can be adapted to most ARs, and still allows for ambi manipulation if so desired. Im getting one for my AR9.
 
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Demi-human said:
I’m not sure I understand the premise.
When I am holding an AR, all but the magazine release is operated by my left hand.

The mag release is operated by my trigger finger. If it can operate a trigger, or your other fingers for those unfortunate carpenters, it can operate a mag release.
Just as easily, reaching around the mag well with the left meat hook can drop the magazine before refreshing it, in the event of injury.
Further, there is ambidextrous magazine releases on the market.

But like @Conelrad , all I can think of is the FAL. As far as battle rifle.(90s villain boss rifle of choice.)
Is there others?
Are there ambidextrous AKs? Or do they just re-educate you?;)
Click to expand...

The forward assist is also on the right hand side and for me, the charging handle in the top of the rifle combined with its limited shape makes it hard for me to manipulate without canting or lowering the rifle.
 
Go fire a bunch of rounds at an IPSC at 300 yards supporting the rifle only with your right hand on the pistol grip and then you’ll stop pretending the right hand is supporting the rifle. You’re holding the rifle, you’re not supporting it on target.
 
daniel craig said:
The forward assist is also on the right hand side and for me, the charging handle in the top of the rifle combined with its limited shape makes it hard for me to manipulate without canting or lowering the rifle.
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Half my AR's do not have a forward assist at all and I can't remember the last time I use it on the ones that do. If you're in a position to need to use the forward assist your probably going to be breaking your shooting position.

Never had an issue charging and AR with the left hand lifting my head slightly to clear the rearward motions. My 3-gun AR has a Badger Ordinance extended latch that make a left handed charge fast and easy.
 
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mcb said:
Half my AR's do not have a forward assist at all and I can't remember the last time I use it on the ones that do. If you in a position to need to use the forward assist you probably going to be breaking your shooting position.

Never had an issue charging and AR with the left hand lifting my head slightly to clear the rear motions. My 3-gun AR has a Badger Ordinance extended latch that make a left handed charge fast and easy.
Click to expand...
The last time I tried to use a FBA, it didnt help anyway....:confused:
 
Most modern guns seem weird to me. Not many guns are designed with aesthetics in mind at all let alone a good form line with wood and blued steel. Apparently bluing is a thing of the past. Seems that the functional side of battle rifles has bled over into traditional gun manufacturing and that is a shame. That said, looking back as far back as I can think about, most guns are designed to be right hand operated. Pump shotguns load from the bottom and eject to the right. If you need to toss in an extra after the gun goes empty then the right hand does it. Lever actions load from a loading gate on the right side unless they load at the muzzle. Bolt guns are pretty much universal that the strong hand does everything and the off hand stays on the forend. The only gun I can think of where the left hand does most of the operation aside from pulling the trigger is the hand ejector revolver since it rolls out and presents to the left hand. Most semiauto pistols are somewhat of a combination even if mag release is solely right hand operation the new magazine can go in left handed quickly.

I bet that guns are built this way because of guys like me. There must be some sort of a disconnect between my brain and my left arm because it does not do what I tell it to do. It might get close, but my left hand is nearly worthless for any real use. Gross motor skills are ok, fine motor skills are nonexistant.
 
mcb said:
Half my AR's do not have a forward assist at all and I can't remember the last time I use it on the ones that do. If you in a position to need to use the forward assist you probably going to be breaking your shooting position.

Never had an issue charging and AR with the left hand lifting my head slightly to clear the rear motions. My 3-gun AR has a Badger Ordinance extended latch that make a left handed charge fast and easy.
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Idk. Maybe you’re shaped in a way more conducive to using thay style of rifle.
 
Yeah my left hand is a little uncoordinated but I welcome some left hand controls. You don’t have to shift hands first , let go and regrip to the left side. But I still get jumbled up sometimes if in a hurry. The bolt release is easier and mag release has to be gotten use to. They need to be closer together on my gun.
 
As the above notes, the support hand is key in keeping the arm generally on target.

Try running a lever action with the support arm instead of the dominant arm.

And, naturally, the only way to "wrong hand" a Moisin is to deploy the bayonet so you can stick that 60-70 foot long beats in the ground and then use both hands to cycle the bolt.

Really, it's all related to what it takes to hold 9-11 pounds of rifle mostly horizontal while various controls are worked. That wants a support hand, not a firing hand.

It's part of the miracle that Stoner & Sullivan created that you can support that arm with your firing hand and used the other hand for other tasks; or have enough support to easily manipulate controls and not lose grip. It's part of what makes the AR-15 so revolutionary, which is why so many places have, or are, adopting it.
 
CapnMac said:
As the above notes, the support hand is key in keeping the arm generally on target.

Try running a lever action with the support arm instead of the dominant arm.

And, naturally, the only way to "wrong hand" a Moisin is to deploy the bayonet so you can stick that 60-70 foot long beats in the ground and then use both hands to cycle the bolt.

Really, it's all related to what it takes to hold 9-11 pounds of rifle mostly horizontal while various controls are worked. That wants a support hand, not a firing hand.

It's part of the miracle that Stoner & Sullivan created that you can support that arm with your firing hand and used the other hand for other tasks; or have enough support to easily manipulate controls and not lose grip. It's part of what makes the AR-15 so revolutionary, which is why so many places have, or are, adopting it.
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Obviously the lever gun is an exception but I don’t consider it a modern combat arm.
 
I actually prefer all my controls on the right side, but I'm not using the gun in combat, and run right side reciprocating handles.

I've always shot right handed, right operated semis tho, so it's probably more just personal comfort.

I can see the advantage of doing more of it left handed tho, at least at short range and in hectic conditions.

My buddy has a a Cobalt Kinetics with dual forward assists, and ambi controls. That ones a fun gun, it's nice being able to switch sides and still run all the controls the same way.
 
daniel craig said:
I find I can support the rifle just fine with my right hand on the pistol grip and I think it’s more intuitive to me, to do that than to take my firing hand off the weapon to manipulate controls.
Click to expand...
Can you do this with a FAL or a G3 or an AR10 or an M1A?

I cannot.
 
So...get a left handed bolt action.

Seriously, though, there are reasons why they're designed the way they are.

If you are right handed, you're typically right eye dominant and a rifle is held with the right hand on the grip/trigger and the left hand on the forward stock.

A rifle is more easily controlled and manipulated while being held by the forward stock. Also, the non-dominant arm/hand never has to cross over in front of your face/eyes to operate anything, such as a bolt. Shift things around the way you're thinking and you lose some of these advantages.

Everything about any design is a bit of give-and-take. And some things make more or less difference than other...simply a matter of "getting used to". Like the trigger guard safety on my Remington 12 gauge and the thumb safety above the stock on my Mosberg 12 gauge. Essentially the same shotgun except for safety locations.

If you want a bolt action with the bolt on the opposite side, then find a left handed bolt action rifle. If it works for you, great!
 
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