Riots, mobs and survival

GEM said:

https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/defense-against-mobs
Massad Ayoob.

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The way Mas breaks the language and definitions down and describes different scenarios is great ! He talks about the Earps in 1881 Tombstone, Hamer in the 20s & 30s, the Rodney King and Reginald Denny riots and points ot the similarities as well as the differences between then and now. Fantastic descriptions !

I am of the Ellefritz mind set.

Stay away from any scheduled protests, riots, uprisings, or large political gatherings. It is absolutely not safe to attend such an event in today’s political climate. I hope my readers are smart enough to recognize that. Both sides of most of these “protests” are at fault. Both sides show up looking for a fight. Both sides get exactly what they came for. The only way to avoid violence like that on a personal level is to avoid being present in the first place.

......... I am a political atheist. I don’t believe either side has the citizens’ best interest at heart. I’m not a member of any political party. I have some views that are extremely conservative. I have other views that are extremely liberal. I don’t fit neatly into any particular political ideology, so I try to keep this site a friendly place for people of all political persuasions.

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Interesting reads. Particularly the parts about vehicles. I like Ayoob's idea of carrying ear protection in his car.

GEM said:

We get lots of posts about riots and uproar. The discussion usually turns to WHAT GUN, blah, blah.

So here are two resources that look at the issue in more depth:

https://www.activeresponsetraining.net/riot-survival-compendium

https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/defense-against-mobs

Both by respected trainers: Greg Ellifritz and Massad Ayoob.

As you will see if you read, there is more to it than caliber wars.

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I like that Ayoob basically says, the best thing you can do is not get in that situation in the first place and if you do, get out before using a weapon.

If you are not participating in the mob or riot, you should avoid the area. If you are thinking of participating in one, maybe you should talk to your Mom and Dad first. If they love you and you love them, you should also be safe.

jmorris said:

If you are not participating in the mob or riot, you should avoid the area.

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There was a protest this afternoon about a mile north of where I'm at right now.

One year ago a Co Springs police officer shot a fleeing felon and killed him. The shooting was ruled justified.

This afternoon about 200 protesters blocked the street in front of the cop's house. About 20 of the protesters showed up wearing plate carriers and carrying ARs.

One of the news videos that I saw today showed several armed protesters blocking a truck on the street by standing in front of the truck with their rifles unslung and held at low ready.

I'm thinking this type thing is going to become more common. You can't always avoid the area.

What do you do when you're away from home and you realize it's your street where your wife and kids are home alone that the protesters are protesting on?

What do you do when they organize a flash mob, rolling slow down/ road block on the interstate right in front of you?

I said it in the other discussion and it got deleted as "noise" but these folks aren't stupid. They know how to use social media to organize these things. They know how to start them with no warning.

Trunk Monkey said:

There was a protest this afternoon about a mile north of where I'm at right now.

One year ago a Co Springs police officer shot a fleeing felon and killed him. The shooting was ruled justified.

This afternoon about 200 protesters blocked the street in front of the cop's house. About 20 of the protesters showed up wearing plate carriers and carrying ARs.

One of the news videos that I saw today showed several armed protesters blocking a truck on the street by standing in front of the truck with their rifles unslung and held at low ready.

I'm thinking this type thing is going to become more common. You can't always avoid the area.

What do you do when you're away from home and you realize it's your street where your wife and kids are home alone that the protesters are protesting on?

What do you do when they organize a flash mob, rolling slow down/ road block on the interstate right in front of you?

I said it in the other discussion and it got deleted as "noise" but these folks aren't stupid. They know how to use social media to organize these things. They know how to start them with no warning.

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Agree, they are going to get worse. But let's stop calling them Protest. They are noting but Acts of Terrorism. And you are right, they are organized and led and financed by a much bigger power. They already are getting worse. and then there are the Buffoons out there like NFAC are getting into the mix.
You have to really become more alert and use situational awareness more than ever before. Your car can be a trap. Tips like ear plugs and protective eye glasses in the vehicle are great. Thanks for the Thread Starter. Especially of concern is the ammo shortage that accompanied the Terrorism and the de funding of police. Meaning that you can't rely on them to be of any help.
I read about a elderly Black man shot to death simply because he wore a Trump Hat. Meaning that part of situational awareness requires not displaying anything political on your person, or decals on your car etc. So many things to think about including weapons and home security.

I know that James Yeager does not have a very good reputation and he's really not considered a well-respected trainer but I heard him say something once that I believe is very true.

What he said was that one of the ways that your brain reacts to an emergency is by denying that it's even happening. I think that statement is true I've seen too many interviews of the aftermath of a disaster where the victims are saying "Oh I didn't think it was real.".

He also said that you have to learn how to overcome that reaction, make a decision and move.

So when you're driving down the interstate and you see a sea of brake lights ahead of you, that's not the time to stop and wonder what's going on until you're caught in the traffic jam. That's the time to get the hell out of Dodge and if that means that you have to do a U-turn in the middle of the median then that's what you do.

What you don't want to do is give the protesters time to get to your car or time to prepare for people trying to get out of the area.

I'm a very firm believer that in that specific situation you're better off moving right now than moving later

I have a rather simplistic approach; I avoid crowds, period, whenever possible.

Trunk Monkey said:

I know that James Yeager does not have a very good reputation and he's really not considered a well-respected trainer but I heard him say something once that I believe is very true.

What he said was that one of the ways that your brain reacts to an emergency is by denying that it's even happening. I think that statement is true I've seen too many interviews of the aftermath of a disaster where the victims are saying oh I didn't think it was real.

He also said that you have to learn how to overcome that reaction, make a decision and move.

So when you're driving down the interstate and you see a sea of brake lights ahead of you, that's not the time to stop and wonder what's going on until you're caught in the traffic jam. That's the time to get the hell out of Dodge and if that means that you have to do a U-turn in the middle of the median then that's what you do.

What you don't want to do is give the protesters time to get to your car or time to prepare for people trying to get out of the area.

I'm a very firm believer that in that specific situation you're better off moving right now than moving later

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I totally agree with your escape method.

My issue with it is,what if its a simple accident and your about to commit a few dozen traffic law violations ?.

I am pretty sure that you will not get a sympathetic ear from the State Trooper that is trying to get to that accident and has to dodge your --- driving in the wrong direction.

I would hope & pray that your radio would supply enough information to TOTALLY AVOID the roadway.

I too would do whatever I needed to get away,rather than trying to use force or get attacked in my vehicle that is now immobile.

All we can do is prepare for the worst,PRAY for the best.

Which raises so many questions as to ALL the possible scenarios that could arise = TOO MANY to game them all to a safe & happy solution.

The only answer that I see is "Situtaional Awareness" at all times your out.

And yes,even in your home !

scaatylobo said:

I totally agree with your escape method.

My issue with it is,what if its a simple accident and your about to commit a few dozen traffic law violations ?.

I am pretty sure that you will not get a sympathetic ear from the State Trooper that is trying to get to that accident and has to dodge your --- driving in the wrong direction.

I would hope & pray that your radio would supply enough information to TOTALLY AVOID the roadway.

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As I mentioned previously, they've been shutting down the Interstate with zero warning. If you're on the interstate when it happens there is no getting notified in time to avoid the roadway.

I also didn't say anything at all about driving the wrong way on the road I said to cross the median and go the other way

The advise Mas gave that stood out the most to me was turning your hazard lights on if stuck in a mob/protest/riot. Their side is always filming and if you get scared and try to dart away, then it looks like "Crazed man drives into peaceful protesters." If your four way flashers are on and driving very slowly, it looks like you have an emergency and people need to let you through. Never hurts to turn your hazard lights on early if confused about what's happening ahead.

Here's my two cents:

Avoid these gathering whenever possible. Even if you happen to agree with the political stance of a particular protest, if you have reason to suspect things will get violent or criminal in some other way, don't go.

Don't brand your vehicle with political stickers, flags, certain aftermarket parts, or anything else that is likely to make you a target. If one person pigeonholes you, the rest may not be far behind. You might see it as an infringement on your right to free speech, but sometimes you just gotta do what's smart.

If you end up caught in your vehicle, or on foot in such a situation, try to fit in. Don't try to push your vehicle through a mob, just lean out the window and start chanting whatever they're chanting. It might feel dirty, but they'll believe you are one of them. If on foot, recognise that the crowd is not devouring itself. So just act like they do until you can get to the fringe, and disappear. Then chalk one up to subterfuge, and call it a win to get out safely.

Bottom line: if you look like a d-uck, walk like a d-uck, and quack like a d-uck, they'll probably assume you're a d-uck just like them. If your pride, political views, and freedom of expression are more important to you than avoiding potential physical danger and damage to your property, then just ignore everything I said.

WrongHanded said:

Here's my two cents:

Avoid these gathering whenever possible. Even if you happen to agree with the political stance of a particular protest, if you have reason to suspect things will get violent or criminal in some other way, don't go.

Don't brand your vehicle with political stickers, flags, certain aftermarket parts, or anything else that is likely to make you a target. If one person pigeonholes you, the rest may not be far behind. You might see it as an infringement on your right to free speech, but sometimes you just gotta do what's smart.

If you end up caught in your vehicle, or on foot in such a situation, try to fit in. Don't try to push your vehicle through a mob, just lean out the window and start chanting whatever they're chanting. It might feel dirty, but they'll believe you are one of them. If on foot, recognise that the crowd is not devouring itself. So just act like they do until you can get to the fringe, and disappear. Then chalk one up to subterfuge, and call it a win to get out safely.

Bottom line: if you look like a d-uck, walk like a d-uck, and quack like a d-uck, they'll probably assume you're a d-uck just like them. If your pride, political views, and freedom of expression are more important to you than avoiding potential physical danger and damage to your property, then just ignore everything I said.

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This is excellent advice.

Trunk Monkey said:

As I mentioned previously, they've been shutting down the Interstate with zero warning. If you're on the interstate when it happens there is no getting notified in time to avoid the roadway.

I also didn't say anything at all about driving the wrong way on the road I said to cross the median and go the other way

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On a "divided highway", that might be possible. Unfortunately, most of these are urban interstates with either concrete or steel guardrails separating the opposing sides of the roads - with no cross-overs - just various exit ramps. Many of these protestors have come from ramps going onto the highway from side roads, cutting off driver's "escape routes".

Mas' statement here is telling. I've been talking with other people about this very thing:


What we are seeing that is different in the current 2020 situation is most aptly described by a friend of mine who is a very street-wise police supervisor in a major, high crime city. He said the difference this time is that the mob is not working with one mind, one purpose and one target. What we have is the Antifa types and the opportunistic looters basically seeding themselves in among those I would call the legitimate protesters–the people who are there in good conscience and good faith, to cause no physical harm to anyone and to voice what they believe is a very important concern.

My friend said the crowd today is not a mob; the crowd today is an ocean in which the predators swim, hide and are essentially effecting camouflage. They emerge out of the ocean to set fires to buildings, to violently assault people, and then to melt back into the protection of the crowd. They are using the crowd in the same way that Saddam Hussein used human shields: taking women and children and settling them in camps surrounding all the military bases during the Iraq war when he was afraid the Americans would obliterate his military bases.

JTHunter said:

On a "divided highway", that might be possible. Unfortunately, most of these are urban interstates with either concrete or steel guardrails separating the opposing sides of the roads - with no cross-overs - just various exit ramps. Many of these protestors have come from ramps going onto the highway from side roads, cutting off driver's "escape routes".

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The particular location where they did it here last month was a divided Highway.

I am aware that at some point you could just get stuck in the mob at that point maybe your best bet would be to stay in your car, keep your mouth shut and draw as little attention to yourself as possible.

Not every solution's going to work in every situation.

Avoidance is always the best strategy whenever possible. It doesn't take much to set people off these days. Anything that involves longer lines or longer wait times than usual is sometimes enough to cause people to snap. I avoid crowded shopping times, crowded stores, and crowds in general. I won't even hit a busy drive-thru or stop for gas at a busy service station any more unless I have no choice, because I've seen too many people reach the brink of assaulting each other over a 5 minute wait. In these times when people are more likely to overreact, it's vitally important to be prepared and to stay back, stay calm, and think.

One of my daughters attended a protest not long ago and we had a conversation about it.

I told her that there isn't much civil unrest in the area where we live, but there ARE people out there who are making it their business to travel around and foment unrest/violence.

If she chooses to attend, then she should ALWAYS be aware of what's going on around her and not allow herself to be distracted to the extent that she loses sight of that.

At the FIRST SIGN that things are going to turn bad, LEAVE. Mob mentality does NOT react to reason well, if at all. And the odds that any given individual subject to mob violence will escape without serious injury, or death, drop dramatically as a result.

Turn around, don't drown!