Pump or short side by side?

John Joseph said:

For hunting, a SxS with double triggers is the way to go.
Nothing is faster at getting off a follow up shot.
Nothing.
For HD look for a SxS with hammers.
You can't keep a hammerless SxS loaded without it being cocked, relying solely on the safety, which is never a good idea.

Or get a pump action.
I like old Wing Masters but Ithaca 37s and Mossberg 500s will get the job done---they've been doing it for the military and police for decades.
If you have the $$$$, Winchester Model 12 and 1897s are the gold standard, but parts for the 97 are made of unobtainium

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No they aren't, you just have to know where to look. I just ordered some Saturday.

I like the Lefever, riomouse! I had a Stevens 311 16 ga. done just like that, great grouse and small game gun. The BPS receiver is a tad longer, in all the gauges; it's more pronounced in the smaller gauges.

My bedside gun is an Ithaca 37, though I confess a preference for 870's. I still toy with the idea now and then of getting a 97 and making it an HD gun.

If you want--1)a double shotgun with a shorter LOP, 2)shorter barrels for faster handling in HD scenario, 3)not too expensive,--- then I'd look for a Savage/Stevens 311, and get someone (or yourself if you're handy with a saw) to shorten the stock a little, leaving room for a recoil pad, and someone, preferably a gunsmith, to shorten the barrels a bit. You can find these old shotguns for a few hundred dollars, and put a little into them to make them what you want. These are box lock and reliable guns, they weren't expensive when new, but good field guns.

You could do the stock and barrel work to any double, but probably have a lot more in one. Stoeger makes a fairly good coach gun with 20" barrels, all you'd have to do is shorten the stock to suit you.

If you really want exposed hammers, CZ is your best choice for a new gun, but their two offerings run about $1000. The idea of keeping one loaded and uncocked is okay, and the exposed hammer guns still have a safety. I have the CZ Hammer Classic, the long barrel model, it is a very nice shotgun for the money. The hammers have a trigger block, they will not reach the firing pins unless the triggers are pulled, so they would be relatively safe if chambered with the hammers down.

I had a stainless Stoeger Outback over 10 years ago. I liked it. It was basically a single trigger O/U with a short barrel and painted stock. Nothing fancy, but i think it cost around $300. I liked that it broke down into smaller pieces for carrying in my trunk. I didn't like the storing loaded and cocked nor the fact the safety engaged as soon as it cocked. I kept it by my bed with the action open, shells loaded. Just pick it up, snap it shut, and hope to remember to take the safety off.

I traded it away toward an old 870 Police, and that was a nice shooter. Went toward an Ithaca 37 DSPS trade in and it has remained my go-to pump gun for years. I put it in semi retirement when I bought my Mossberg 590a1 Retrograde. Its a big heavy battleaxe. Its certainly overkill for what I need, but it's basically bombproof and most likely the last shotgun I will ever need.

In short, I like the little SS and OU guns, but I don't like them enough to spend the money it costs to get a good one. $700 on a pump is a lot. $700 on a SS is not even breaking into something most would consider a good investment.

Ernie Bass said:

Personally have gotten to the point that I do not want a shotgun with a barrel over 24".

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I agree. I like my O/U and SxS with 26" barrels and my pump and semi-auto barrels even shorter, like in the 20" range. As Riomouse911's photo illustrated, the shorter barreled pumps and semi-autos still have the length and sighting radius of a longer O/U or SxS.

I sawed these two off and would do it again in a heartbeat if I had it to do over.

I6turbo said:

I agree. I like my O/U and SxS with 26" barrels and my pump and semi-auto barrels even shorter, like in the 20" range. As Riomouse911's photo illustrated, the shorter barreled pumps and semi-autos still have the length and sighting radius of a longer O/U or SxS.

I sawed these two off and would do it again in a heartbeat if I had it to do over.
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Agree, I like the 20" for sure. Like your guns above. For OV 20" as well. One thing about shotguns, there are so many different classes of shooters and so many choices for their particular task, likes and dislikes. As I mentioned early, I have sold off a number of my shotguns and handed a few down to my son. I have what I want and prefer for the hunting I do. The gun I choose will not be right for all, nor will everyone agree with my choice. But who really cares what another buys or chooses? Just like all firearms.

Fiv3r said:

I didn't like the storing loaded and cocked nor the fact the safety engaged as soon as it cocked. I kept it by my bed with the action open, shells loaded. Just pick it up, snap it shut, and hope to remember to take the safety off

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You can store it loaded and not cocked.

The auto safety drove me crazy too. But, it's easily disabled and returned to stock.

I get what you're saying though.

Mine is hammerless. At the time, the ones with hammer in my cheap price range, everyone was saying it's not decocked or safe or something when the hammers are lowered. I can't remember exactly. That defeated the purpose to me so I went hammerless.

What id rather have in a coach gun is the thing fall open and manually cock it with the hammers and when decocked by lowering the hammers, it be safe. A reliable single trigger would be cool to.

gregp74 said:

Wow! I'd never looked at any of those before! Mrs. P is going to have conniption fits if she sees me checking those things out

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Why I have my own gun fund - it's how I bought my DT-11.......

cdb1 said:

My bucket list shotgun(s), matching Grulla or AyA SxS’s in 16, 20 and 28 gauge on appropriately sized receivers. Don’t know why but I’ve never had much desire for a Purdey.

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But a matching triplet like that might cost you as much as a Purdey!.......(especially if you order them bespoke)

Taking your concept, what I thought would be cool would be to have an AyA 20 gauge frame with 16, 20, and 28 gauge barrels all made to fit that one frame; keep the weight about 6.5# for all three................

gregp74 said:

Man, I have a few rifles that were in the $2500 range but I know like nothing about high end stuff.

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What do you want to know? I bet some of here could at least steer you in the right direction.

cdb1 said:

26” is as a rule the shortest you see on a field shotgun though the Benelli M2 can be had with a 24” barrel in a field shotgun.

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On a field shotgun for upland; however, there are some field guns designed for turkey and deer with shorter barrels since they are used more like a rifle.

I think a Stoeger would be fine for you. You could either learn your way around the double barrel with it and then upgrade, or you can get it out of your system.

You'll get a lot more gun for the same money with a pump. I started my shooting career with grand dads double and really like them. Unfortunately good ones are expensive. I can't think of any double under $700-$800 I'd trust. Lots of $300 pumps out there that I would. You can cut the stock and barrels on either of them to make them fit. As long as you stay above legal minimums.

I simply cannot recommend a Stevens 311, BTDT. Those were cheap budget guns that haven't been made in years. The internal parts were poorly made and just aren't designed for a lot of shooting. They were designed for the guy who was a rabbit hunter back in the 1960's and put a box or 2 of shells through a gun in a year. They haven't been made in years and most of the ones left are pretty well worn out.

I'm the one that's too cheap; my current wife had no issue with me pulling the trigger (literally) on a Perazzi ( I didn't), a pair of Browning Ultra XS, one in 20 and one in 28 (only got the 20), bought me a P7 I saw at Gander which I passed on at the time, I passed on a K38 when I found a 19-3RB snub next to it and only bought the snub - so I am my own worst enemy!

jmr40 said:

You'll get a lot more gun for the same money with a pump. I started my shooting career with grand dads double and really like them. Unfortunately good ones are expensive. I can't think of any double under $700-$800 I'd trust. Lots of $300 pumps out there that I would. You can cut the stock and barrels on either of them to make them fit. As long as you stay above legal minimums.

I simply cannot recommend a Stevens 311, BTDT. Those were cheap budget guns that haven't been made in years. The internal parts were poorly made and just aren't designed for a lot of shooting. They were designed for the guy who was a rabbit hunter back in the 1960's and put a box or 2 of shells through a gun in a year. They haven't been made in years and most of the ones left are pretty well worn out.

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Quoted just so I could like it again! I had the upscale cousin - the Savage Fox BSE in 20; that got sold off recently and I agree, the internals were poorly made, the trigger totally sucked, and the 20 weighed as much as a 12. But, when I bought it, there was no internet - we relied on The Shotgun news, Shooting Times, Guns and Ammo and the like.

George P said:

Quoted just so I could like it again! I had the upscale cousin - the Savage Fox BSE in 20; that got sold off recently and I agree, the internals were poorly made, the trigger totally sucked, and the 20 weighed as much as a 12. But, when I bought it, there was no internet - we relied on The Shotgun news, Shooting Times, Guns and Ammo and the like.

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The B-SE is a very different gun internally than the B (and I assume the 311, but I've not owned any 311s). The B-SE is a piece of junk compared to the B.

gregp74 said:

Oh I've been keeping one of those for a while!

This feels like it's turning into one of those times where the couple hundred bucks I plan on spending quickly skyrockets. Kind of like when I was going to get a used Ruger 22lr revolver but scrapped that idea in favor of an S&W but I couldn't decide between a new production 617 or 50 year old model 18-3. So I got both.

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I like your way of thinking!

George P said:

Quoted just so I could like it again! I had the upscale cousin - the Savage Fox BSE in 20; that got sold off recently and I agree, the internals were poorly made, the trigger totally sucked, and the 20 weighed as much as a 12. But, when I bought it, there was no internet - we relied on The Shotgun news, Shooting Times, Guns and Ammo and the like.

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Savage bought the name and destroyed it, just like brewers do all the time. Now an A.H. Fox, that's a well made shotgun.

I6turbo said:

The B-SE is a very different gun internally than the B (and I assume the 311, but I've not owned any 311s). The B-SE is a piece of junk compared to the B.

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The difference between the B and B-SE -vat least the way it was explained to me - the S stands for single trigger, the E stands for ejector (over extractors) The B-SE had machine checkering as opposed to pressed or none and walnut, not hardwood; mechanically (except for the triggers and ejectors) they are supposed to be the same.

Do you have any buds who have some of these types of guns that will let you try them out?

George P said:

The difference between the B and B-SE -vat least the way it was explained to me - the S stands for single trigger, the E stands for ejector (over extractors) The B-SE had machine checkering as opposed to pressed or none and walnut, not hardwood; mechanically (except for the triggers and ejectors) they are supposed to be the same.

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I've owned both, still have the B and love shooting and hunting with it. I've had both of them down to their component parts while cleaning the B, and while repeatedly repairing the B-SE. Single trigger vs. double trigger and ejectors vs. extractors by definition mean that the guns are significantly different internally. Those features are some of the very fundamentals of double-barrel shotguns that determine their durability, and in the case of these two guns, are the difference between being pretty rugged and durable, and not. The B-SE is way too delicate, especially the ejector mechanism. The B with its double triggers and extractors is a simpler gun and much more rugged.