Tube feed question

Mr_Flintstone · Aug 9, 2020

In another post I asked about load data for light 30-30 loads. This is a related, but different question.

I loaded a bunch of Hornady .308 Short Jacket bullets in my 30-30 cases, then someone told me they wouldn’t be safe in a tube magazine. They do have a very small flat point, so, I can see where there might be concern, but in my mind, the bullet tip would never line up with the primer in front of it. I decided to do a little test by lining up two bullets on a table top and squared in a Vernier Caliper to simulate how they would lay inside a tube.

From looking at the picture, most of the flat point of the bullet hits the brass around the primer pocket, and not directly on the primer.

What do you guys think? Would this be a safe load in a .30-30?

jmorris · Aug 9, 2020

With the spring pressure of the follower pushing squarely on the base of the last case, is that where the nose sits or is that just when you lay them out on a table?

rfwobbly · Aug 9, 2020

As with all things reloading, you want to always err on the side of safety.

Shoot them singly or as the last round in a tube full.

SlowFuse · Aug 9, 2020

Doesn't look flat enough for me to be comfortable with it.

I would single load if it were mine

ballman6711 · Aug 9, 2020

IF you're just punching paper (and I assume you are since these are light loads) you could...

1: Make sure the gun is unloaded.
2: Load two rounds in the tube.
3: Chamber a round (thereby leaving only one round in the magazine tube).
4: Fire, chamber the second round, fire again.

You would basically have a two shot rifle doing this, but it would be safe.

I for one would not load a tube of those and start shooting. Just my .02c.

chris

Telum Pisces · Aug 9, 2020

Flat nose only or FTX hornady type only in a tube fed!

It's not how they simply lay in there. The recoil action will rattle them all around! If you can fix a "possible" boom why not?

Mr_Flintstone · Aug 10, 2020

I appreciate all the answers. After I posted the original question, I decided to contact Hornady and ask them, since they are the manufacturer, and the ones who published the load data. Here is my correspondence:

Me: I have a question about your .308 100 gr Short Jacket #3005. You have load data for this bullet in .30-30 Win published in your 10th edition Load Manual. Has this bullet been tested in tube magazines, and/or is it safe for regular use in a tube fed .30-30 rifle?

Hornady Support commented at: 08-10-2020 02:41
This flat nosed bullet is fine in a tubular magazine. You will want to make sure you have an aggressive crimp on the bullet to prevent setback as it does not have a cannelure on it. Thanks

Jesse Heywood · Aug 10, 2020

I would like to think that Hornady has done their part in testing. The bullet does have a flat point, but not a big one.

Just in case, I would print the email and file it.

FROGO207 · Aug 10, 2020

Back a few years ago you could purchase factory ammo from somebody for the 30-30 that had a small flat point on it. I was always leary of using them but never heard of problems. The flat part was just under the size of a .22 LR brass neck IIRC.

Charlie98 · Aug 10, 2020

You know what scares me about that bullet? The half-jacket... like the Speer half-jacket pistol bullets.There was always the warning against using them with light loads... sticking the jacket in the bore while the lead 'core' exits the barrel.

kelbro · Aug 11, 2020

Would be easy enough to set up a test. I seriously doubt that the surface area of the lead tip could generate the ~6# of force required to ignite a primer.

I would personally find another bullet or just load them up with one in the chamber and one in the tube.

Varminterror · Aug 12, 2020

ballman6711 said:
You would basically have a two shot rifle doing this, but it would be safe.

The standard practice is to load 2+1, not just 1+1. It’s generally considered that the only potential step in the cycle which can cause primer detonation is the spring driven indexing of the round down the magazine - the cartridge stop releases one round, then the stack gets ~2.5” of free run under spring pressure, such the next round hits the cartridge stop and detonates the primer of the second round in the tube.

So load one, chamber, load two. Fire. Cycle - there only remains one round in the mag, such there’s never an instance where the mag spring indexes a live round onto the point of the one behind it.

ballman6711 · Aug 12, 2020

Varminterror said:
The standard practice is to load 2+1, not just 1+1. It’s generally considered that the only potential step in the cycle which can cause primer detonation is the spring driven indexing of the round down the magazine - the cartridge stop releases one round, then the stack gets ~2.5” of free run under spring pressure, such the next round hits the cartridge stop and detonates the primer of the second round in the tube.

So load one, chamber, load two. Fire. Cycle - there only remains one round in the mag, such there’s never an instance where the mag spring indexes a live round onto the point of the one behind it.

I never knew this. I'll have to do a bit of research in case I want to run something like this in my .357 Marlin.

chris

AJC1 · Aug 12, 2020

They did a lot of fun videos testing this theory on YouTube. Used pointed full jackets and all kinds of other insane things trying to get them to chain detonate. In a practical sense I saw zero to worry about and I would not be considered with a flat tip led bullet ever. The lead is likely a low hardness anyway being used with a half jacket. Safe and smart is always the rule with firearms. Some concerns are directly addressed through testing. From a liability standpoint hornaday would never accept risk.

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Mr_Flintstone

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