I believe some of those are still in use by some of those nations. When I was in Haiti, some of the Nepalese UN soldiers were using ancient looking, wood stocked military bolt actions of some sort.
Sporterized military rifles
- Thread starter Mark Mahler
- Start date
- Status
Dunno when you were in Haiti but this indicates the "antique" weapons were purchased by an arms firm in 2004, ostensibly to help fund purchases of "modern" weaponry.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Military_Antiques
Also mentioned here
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepali_Army
The civil war there was active 1996-2006. Dunno exactly what armaments the communist faction were armed with. Photos I saw and located appear to be a mix of L1A1's & SMLE's and / or their clones for the most part, which along with Sterling SMG's, probably matched the royal forces, although the article mentions China providing armaments to the communist forces as well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepalese_Civil_War
I *think* I remember news reports of Ghurkas with Sterling SMG's as well as their traditional knife participating in The Falklands Campaign back in the day, with Argentine forces surrendering to them.
Last edited:
theotherwaldo
Member
I've rescued about a safe full of sporterized milsurps, ranging from Trapdoors to SKSs
Many of them have a far more interesting history than their unissued brothers - and I'm not afraid of ruining them by shooting them.
A few of them gave up some parts to restore other guns that were in better condition or had parts swapped along the way.
I still like and use them at least as much as their unmodified brothers.
Many of them have a far more interesting history than their unissued brothers - and I'm not afraid of ruining them by shooting them.
A few of them gave up some parts to restore other guns that were in better condition or had parts swapped along the way.
I still like and use them at least as much as their unmodified brothers.
mgmorden
Member
I like a WELL sporterized rifle - where it was done with attention to detail and not "half-assed". An actual replacement (wood) sporter stock, not a cut down original or a cheapo ATI. They need to be properly drilled and tapped for GOOD scope mounts - not a gimmicky "scout mount" or flimsy "no gunsmithing" mount. The barrel needs to be professionally shortened (if necessary) to no more than 24". Bonus points for extra fancy wood grades, replacement/adjustable triggers, and various other accouterments.
I've got 4 myself (forgive the carpet stains
):
A Springfield 1903 in .30-06:
A Spanish La Coruna Mauser in 8mm Mauser:
A Turkish Mauser in .257 Roberts:
And a SMLE No4 Mk1 Enfield (this one was sporterized by Golden State arms - I'm still in the process of fabricating a scope mount for this):
As someone else said - if the pool of available rifles hadn't been thinned the ones that are "collectible" wouldn't be very collectible anymore. Besides a lot of these aren't rare at all and its just the fascination with military rifles that makes people want them. They made FAR more Mauser 98K's than Remington 722's yet people will view the former as an untouchable holy relic whilst the latter is just another rifle that nobody cares what you do with it.
Particularly if you plan on keeping the rifle for a long time, then by all means do with it what you like. Nobody else will be owning it for a while anyways. Now if you're buying one, cutting it up, selling that, buying another, doing the same, rinse repeat ad-naseum, then yeah I frown upon that. Sort of like the guys buying old shotguns and the first thing out of their mouths is "I'M GONNA CUT DOWN THE BARREL FOR A 'HOME DEFENSE' GUN!" . . . and after they're bored with that they sell it and are chopping up another one.
PS: I've also got plenty of original milsurps that I don't plan on modifying, and with the exception of the Turkish Mauser above, all of these were at least partially sporterized before they came to me. The Turk Mauser was $40 which was by far the cheapest option for a base action for a custom sporter.
I've got 4 myself (forgive the carpet stains
):A Springfield 1903 in .30-06:
A Spanish La Coruna Mauser in 8mm Mauser:
A Turkish Mauser in .257 Roberts:
And a SMLE No4 Mk1 Enfield (this one was sporterized by Golden State arms - I'm still in the process of fabricating a scope mount for this):
As someone else said - if the pool of available rifles hadn't been thinned the ones that are "collectible" wouldn't be very collectible anymore. Besides a lot of these aren't rare at all and its just the fascination with military rifles that makes people want them. They made FAR more Mauser 98K's than Remington 722's yet people will view the former as an untouchable holy relic whilst the latter is just another rifle that nobody cares what you do with it.
Particularly if you plan on keeping the rifle for a long time, then by all means do with it what you like. Nobody else will be owning it for a while anyways. Now if you're buying one, cutting it up, selling that, buying another, doing the same, rinse repeat ad-naseum, then yeah I frown upon that. Sort of like the guys buying old shotguns and the first thing out of their mouths is "I'M GONNA CUT DOWN THE BARREL FOR A 'HOME DEFENSE' GUN!" . . . and after they're bored with that they sell it and are chopping up another one.
PS: I've also got plenty of original milsurps that I don't plan on modifying, and with the exception of the Turkish Mauser above, all of these were at least partially sporterized before they came to me. The Turk Mauser was $40 which was by far the cheapest option for a base action for a custom sporter.
Last edited:
Sebastian the Ibis
Member
Now that I have the correct Enfield I coveted, and a couple others that were not quite right for me — but correct, I actually want a Mick Dundee sporter for piggies. .303 works as good as the next caliber for piggies. I have plenty of .303 ammo on hand, and I “need” a new iron sighted piggie gun anyways. It’s also hard finding iron sighted centerfire rifles anyways, especially with a good stock. So I’d probably re-stock a modern rifle anyways, and possible fiddle with the sights.
The problem is that I can’t find sporterized enfields for dirt, like I did back when I was looking for the correct ones.
The problem is that I can’t find sporterized enfields for dirt, like I did back when I was looking for the correct ones.
Must not have purchased all of them, cause I was there in 2010 and they still had some.
Nature Boy
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2015
- Messages
- 8,238
Excellent post
Dave DeLaurant
Member
Looks like some custom David Miller mounts (?) Several show up in Tom Turpin's book Modern Custom Guns.
Speedo66
Member
Bubba must have won the lottery.
A lot of these guns were converted by returning servicemen after WWII who couldn't afford commercial rifles.
My Grand Dad bought an 1879 vintage Springfield Trapdoor rifle from Bannerman's for $7.50 before moving to Wyoming to homestead before the turn of the last century.
He shot the rifle once with a black powder round and put in the corner of the saddle room in the barn.
It stood there untouched for 47 years.
My Grandparents abandoned the homestead when I was 4 years old. My Dad and I were cleaning things up and I found the Trapdoor. It was a mess.
My Dad said I was too young to have such a rifle and put it in the back of a closet in our home. It remained there for another 20 years.
When my folks moved to town, I moved back to the ranch and found the old rifle in the closet.
The stock was cracked and weather worn, the barrel was rusted shut.
I got a new unfired surplus barrel, a Rhineheart-Fajen stock, and "bubbaed" the gun into this poor man's version of the Officer's Model. The receiver is pillar mounted and the barrel is floated.
Shame on me!
I have taken Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope, and untold varmints with it in the last 40 years.. It's my favorite rifle.
He shot the rifle once with a black powder round and put in the corner of the saddle room in the barn.
It stood there untouched for 47 years.
My Grandparents abandoned the homestead when I was 4 years old. My Dad and I were cleaning things up and I found the Trapdoor. It was a mess.
My Dad said I was too young to have such a rifle and put it in the back of a closet in our home. It remained there for another 20 years.
When my folks moved to town, I moved back to the ranch and found the old rifle in the closet.
The stock was cracked and weather worn, the barrel was rusted shut.
I got a new unfired surplus barrel, a Rhineheart-Fajen stock, and "bubbaed" the gun into this poor man's version of the Officer's Model. The receiver is pillar mounted and the barrel is floated.
Shame on me!
I have taken Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope, and untold varmints with it in the last 40 years.. It's my favorite rifle.
Last edited:
Shanghai McCoy
Member
^^^^
That story and the pictures always makes me smile.
That story and the pictures always makes me smile.
mustanger98
Member
A well done sporter can be an uplifting piece of usable art. Personally, I like the looks of that '03 Springfield, but if I had one like it, my preference in sight system would be a Lyman #48 or #57. That scope system has its place too.
Having had some experience with both K98 and Remington 721 in .30-06, I think they're running about even. Mileage varies depending on who's talking.
Those guys who hacksaw a shotgun... why not just get a coach gun? 12guage 20" SxS... maybe cylinder/IC... maybe screw-in chokes and go full or modified in both barrels. What's not to like?
mustanger98
Member
Much as I like the No4 Enfield, I'd prefer that P14 Linda got off one of the heavies, or better again, one in original configuration. Thumbhole stocks vs standard...
CapnMac
Member
Perhaps after WWI, when the pay was poor, and the times hard.
After WWII, most GIs were actually pretty flush with back pay, combat pay, and the like. Rather a lot of them had "bring backs" too, which included some oddball European hunting rifles, that the local gun plumber took a reamer to, the better to feed ammo from the hardware store.
The children of WWII GIs (and the "missed the war" generation) probably nearly equaled the amount of sporterized arms in the 20s & 30s. That latter group were the ones that eagerly read the stories in F&S an the like about taking a Mauser action and putting a .257roberts (or an Ackley, or some other similar exotic) barrel in it, then fitting up a fancy stock.
There were plenty of too tight, too stingy types that did all their own plumbing and hacking at arms pulled from a bucket or crate at some store, too.
I used to have an uncle who had taken a 1917 and put it in a short Mannlicher stock with the barrel hacked down to suit (call it 19-20 inches) . Which was rather loud and annoying in .30-06, if not horrible from behind the 4x Weaver on top. He used to take more abuse about his Ross, which was a commercial, not a bubba-ed military in some odd-ball 270-ish caliber (like 6.9x54mm, made from fire-formed belted cases, and necked to .270).
tark
Member
No. NOT shame on you! You took a rusted and abused piece of junk and restored it to a functional, beautiful shooter! No collector will criticize you for that.
303 hunter
Member
Here’s my no4 mk1 Enfield Sporter. It was already modified when I got it many years ago, and is a “T” marked sniper. I’d love to have it in original form, but it’s still a very accurate rifle that’s shot fairly often, and hunted with several times a year.My father was never pretty flush. He was living with his uncle and working at his uncle's butcher shop for communal support of the family when he was drafted for WWII. He'd been doing that since age 13 when his father died, and left school at that time to do this. He had seven brothers and sisters.
He was also quite pragmatic and beyond removing the top wood from the surplus SMLE he purchased and used for hunting, he didn't invest in further sporterizing of the rifle, including any scope or recoil pad. I remember him using Remington Core-lokt ammunition which wasn't priced at enough of any premium to drive him to enter reloading.
Thanks for the date reference. One of those links shows they kept some Ishapore 2A1's still in primary service, a sort of Lee Enfield "clone" manufactured for 7.62X51mm in India. Guess International Military Antiques snagged any and all originals.Must not have purchased all of them, cause I was there in 2010 and they still had some.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishapore_2A1_rifle
That link also shows some good old US M3 (probably M3A1) grease guns still kept in reserve in Nepal. I suppose duty in Haiti would lend itself to being OK with a bolt action rifle with 10 shot magazine vs duty say in Africa or Central America where so many of the population have ready access to fully automatic weapons such as the AK lineage, keeping the more modern armaments at home in Nepal in case another civil war broke out.
BigBlue 94
Member
Gew. 98
1916 J.P. Sauer and Sohn
Suhl, Germany
Fajen Stock
Nicely blued receiver
Rebarrelled in an unknown caliber i have yet to check. Could be 8x57 still. Its around 30 cal.
1916 J.P. Sauer and Sohn
Suhl, Germany
Fajen Stock
Nicely blued receiver
Rebarrelled in an unknown caliber i have yet to check. Could be 8x57 still. Its around 30 cal.
Last edited:
kBob
Member
Those antique Nepalese weapons in the link were Enfield Muzzle loaders, Sniders, and Martini-Henry and locally produced alternatives to both.
I have to say both the Enfield 1853 and the single shot breechloaders were very tempting when they first came in, but the "good" ones went fast.
-kBob
I have to say both the Enfield 1853 and the single shot breechloaders were very tempting when they first came in, but the "good" ones went fast.
-kBob
GBExpat
Member
Ab-so-lute-ly! I have found that to be true (IMO) ... but ... it still bothers me, to some degree, to see one of the old milsurps that has been "reworked", no matter how well-done. S'just me.
303 hunter
Member
Here’s my sporter 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53. Its a sweet shooter with Trigger Concepts adjustable trigger, Williams sights, and Fajen Monte Carlo stock.
Archie
Member
I collect WWI rifles. Obviously, I prefer to collect pristine and pure examples; preferably unfired. Good luck with that! Most of my collection has a mild patina of rust, (prior to my acquisition) and some show prolonged and serious use of the barrel. Some are quite nice. They all have stories to tell. My latest is an M1891 Mosin-Nagant rifle with the Tsar's crest and identified as a Westinghouse product. So I understand, sympathize and advocate the "don't alter a relic" mindset.
At the same time, I have a sporting rifle I had constructed from a Y1903 Greek (Mannlicher-Schonauer) rifle. Before any abuse, the barrel was so shot-out a fired (factory) round printed a profile (sideways) hole in a target at less than twenty yards. And the barrel was cut back already to make it a 'carbine' length. And not crowned. The stock was 'trimmed' and the finish was a thing of the past. The rebuilt (and re-purposed?) rifle is still in 6.5x54mm MS and I'm having a custom scope mount fashioned. I love express sights, but my eyes are too old for them.
I would not have done this to an intact rifle.
I see no sin in further converting an already 'modified' rifle. Especially if my efforts make the rifle more elegant, finished or useful. To my not so humble opinion, there is little worse than incompetent bubba-izion of a functional rifle.
At the same time, I have a sporting rifle I had constructed from a Y1903 Greek (Mannlicher-Schonauer) rifle. Before any abuse, the barrel was so shot-out a fired (factory) round printed a profile (sideways) hole in a target at less than twenty yards. And the barrel was cut back already to make it a 'carbine' length. And not crowned. The stock was 'trimmed' and the finish was a thing of the past. The rebuilt (and re-purposed?) rifle is still in 6.5x54mm MS and I'm having a custom scope mount fashioned. I love express sights, but my eyes are too old for them.
I would not have done this to an intact rifle.
I see no sin in further converting an already 'modified' rifle. Especially if my efforts make the rifle more elegant, finished or useful. To my not so humble opinion, there is little worse than incompetent bubba-izion of a functional rifle.
theotherwaldo
Member
I just finished installing a Timney trigger in a Model 1894 Mauser carbine that I picked up for $70.00.
The stock had been cut down, the unique sling had been removed, the stock disc pulled off, the holes filled in with Plastic Wood, the rear sight broken and the front sight removed.
I considered restoring it - I already had all of the missing parts except for the stock - but the stock is pure unobtanium.
So - I removed the Plastic Wood and installed a silent sling in place of the missing sling and buckle, put in a sling stud and quick release in the fore end, added a scout mount and a cheap pistol scope and now I've put in a good trigger.
Now it looks like something from Fallout 4.
I'm good with that.
Let's see how it shoots... .
I considered putting it in a plastic stock, but no. I think that I'll use that on a Spanish Model 16 in 7.62 CETME that's about to lose its nice original stock to another, otherwise original Model 16 in a cut-down stock.
The stock had been cut down, the unique sling had been removed, the stock disc pulled off, the holes filled in with Plastic Wood, the rear sight broken and the front sight removed.
I considered restoring it - I already had all of the missing parts except for the stock - but the stock is pure unobtanium.
So - I removed the Plastic Wood and installed a silent sling in place of the missing sling and buckle, put in a sling stud and quick release in the fore end, added a scout mount and a cheap pistol scope and now I've put in a good trigger.
Now it looks like something from Fallout 4.
I'm good with that.
Let's see how it shoots... .
I considered putting it in a plastic stock, but no. I think that I'll use that on a Spanish Model 16 in 7.62 CETME that's about to lose its nice original stock to another, otherwise original Model 16 in a cut-down stock.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
