Turret or Progressive?

Howdy and welcome to THR. Progressive would be the fastest. Lots of good choices out there. I personally like the Hornady LNL AP, but others will chime in with their favorites I'm sure.

Given your experience with single stage you should have no trouble adapting to the new system.

.40

For high volume handgun ammunition loading, I prefer a progressive. But if I’m honest, buying huge volumes in bulk has penciled out to be worthwhile for me, rather than handloading my current high volume pistol loads.

If nothing else, give it a run on a cheap Lee progressive - they work well enough for you to get a taste, and decide if the cost is worth the speed to upgrade to a Dillon or Hornady.

Welcome to THR

Varminterror said:

If nothing else, give it a run on a cheap Lee progressive - they work well enough for you to get a taste, and decide if the cost is worth the speed to upgrade to a Dillon or Hornady.

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Yes, I have been giving my "cheap" Lee presses a run for over 25 years loading over 600,000 rounds even after collecting 14 presses to include upgrade to Dillon 550/650. Now days, Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro/Pro 4000 is the press I use most often for load development due to ease/speed of caliber conversion. And yes, the "cheap" ABLP/Pro 4000 and even the humble Pro 1000 has capacity for finished rounds with .001" OAL variance using pre-resized brass (even with mixed range brass) and Pro Auto Disk will meter small granules powders around 0.1 gr variance without drifting charge weights no matter how many rounds you load - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779806

Explanation why ABLP/Pro 4000 and Pro 1000's "floating shell plate" design with offset ram mount reduce shell plate tilt/deflection for more consistent OAL variance - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...progressive-press.833604/page-2#post-10779966

Doc Lambert said:

I often produce 200 - 600 handgun rounds at a time and need to speed things up.

I cannot determine which would be better, a progressive loader, or a turret. Your thoughts?

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For higher volume production, progressive presses hands down outperform turret presses in production rate. If you don't have the budget for Dillon 550/750, I highly recommend the Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro/Pro 4000 kit for high volume pistol and short rifle cartridges - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/looking-to-start-reloading.871380/page-4#post-11570057



While press alone is available now, complete "press kit" will be available in September for $210 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/looking-to-start-reloading.871380/#post-11563698

• 4 station progressive press to allow separate seat and crimp operations
• Easy small to large primer change (Just swap out S/L primer arm stored on press)
• Lowest cost/easiest caliber change using breech lock bushings
• No adjustment shell plate index with guide rod through shell plate holes (To re-index shell plate timing, simply back up shell plate to align hole with guide rod)
• Ergo handle for left/right hand operation
• Clean through ram spent primer collection into a water/plastic bottle
• Safety Prime that will reliably feed down to last primer
• Auto Drum powder measure or Pro Auto Disk with fixed volumetric disk that cannot "drift" powder charges, even after 1000 to 2000 round reloading session (eliminating the every 50 round QC weighing of powder charges when using other powder measures)
• Universal case feeder for all pistol/rifle cases. Buy the optional $10 collator to quickly fill case feeder tubes - https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-case-collator.html?search=case+collator
• Pull out the index rod and use the press as single stage press
• Run a case at a time and use the press as turret press
• Very easy to switch from small to large primers - Simply swap out primer arms already stored in the on-board tool storage rack
• Filling and refilling primers is very easy - Simply dump out primers from factory tray and shake to flip primers and close cover
• With dies mounted on locking bushings, swapping out different caliber dies is easy and fast
• And feeding primers into the priming arms? Align the Safety Prime and chute will feed down to last primer
• Shell plate timing? No need, as holes in shell plate aligns with guide rod ... If shell plate goes out of timing, simply reverse ram lever a bit and shell plate timing auto corrects

For handgun, I only load 9mm and recently purchased a Dillon Square Deal B used in excellent condition. I have found it to be a very nice easy to use press - good efficiency, precise, and consistent. The setup is caliber specific but to change is not difficult. I had a Lee Turret which I liked but I just wanted to take it up a notch. Working at a relaxed pace, I typically load 400 rds in 2 to 2 1/2 hours.

I started out and learned on a Lee Turret Press. Like you, I wanted to step up my production rates beyond what I was able to do on the turret press even with a time/step saving case ejector system from Inline Fab. I did my research and settled on the Lee Auto Breech Lock Pro. I don't want to get into my personal experience with the press to deep... But, I will share with you that the press didn't meet my expectations of simplicity or speed.

I put the LCT press back on the bench and started my research over again. I was out a few dollars worth of Inline Fabrication parts and restocking fees. When I explained to my wife what happened with the new press...she looked at me, turned her head slightly and said, "How many times do I have to tell you? Go big, or go home!"

Ultimately, I did go big and decided on a Dillon 750. It is an investment that will take a long time to see any monetary returns. I took the expense out of my decision making process. To justify a new progressive press I thought of my new press purchase as an upgrade to my hobby and not a money saver.


Good luck.

Bosn Ski said:

Ultimately, I did go big and decided on a Dillon 750. It is an investment that will take a long time to see any monetary returns.

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If you factor in lifetime of reloading, cost of press/equipment is small compared to component cost.

During my lifetime, I spent well over $175,000 on shooting related expenses, mostly on components to reload 600,000+ rounds, not counting rifle cartridges.

So yes, cost of 14 presses including Dillon 650 with case feeder pales in comparison to cost of components. So buy the equipment you can best afford.

If you have the budget, Dillon 750 is a great progressive press which is replacement for 650. If you don't have the budget to buy a Dillon 750, Lee ABLP/Pro 4000 is a capable progressive press able to produce rounds with finished dimensions on par with Dillon 550/650.

I like to be ‘hands on’ when reloading. I opted for Redding T7s. I’m able to stop when I want and inspect whatever I need to. I drop powder from the press and once I get in my rhythm I’m capable of producing 200 rounds an hour comfortably.

I'll add another vote for the Hornady LNL AP. I really like mine. I came from a Lee classic cast turret. Pulling the handle one time per round is wonderful.

No need for me to make any suggestion. The Loadmaster has seen some well deserved improvements over the years and if you go to youtube you can find many videos on how to tweak it or you can also go over and sign up at http://lee-loader.com/index.php ... Enjoy the adventure and added productivity.

One of the best upgrades you can make if loading 9mm is this trick;

Something to consider, every stroke of a progressive press, you will produce a loaded round. With a turret, it will take 4 or 5 strokes to get a loaded round.

In my opinion, the only advantage of a turret over a single stage press is you do not have to replace the dies when moving to the next reloading step.

But lots of folks like the turrets.

I used a turret for many years loading 357 and 45 auto mostly, some 9mm, it was slow, but I tolerated it.
A couple years ago I bought another 9mm pistol and the turret became just too slow, it just wasn't worth it some days.
Bought a Dillon BL 550 for 9mm and I'm so glad I switched.
1 completed round with each pull of the handle is the way to go.
The 550 is a very solid press.

I will throw my support behind the Redding T7 turret.
I only load rifle cartridges on it as I like to be more "hands on". I load 7 different calibers so I have 4 turret plates, 2 calibers on each plate, already set up for the different calibers.
It's a simple process of removing 1 bolt and swapping out the plate to change calibers.
I can easily load 100 to 150 an hour if the cases have already been prepared.
I have a Dillon Square Deal B to load my 9mm and 45acp pistol cartridges.
Running at moderate speed, I can load 150 to 200 pistol cartridges in an hour to an hour and a quarter.

kmw1954 said:

One of the best upgrades you can make if loading 9mm is this trick

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Or penny and spent 22LR case mod (Cheap, I mean one cent and easy to reverse for larger cases).

Drill a hole in a penny and use a spent 22LR case to hold the penny in the center of case collator - No more upside down cases.

I've seen that one also and I use the pex. I bought a piece that if I cut it to length I could probably supply half the forum. Works just as well with the 380acp and find no problem removing it to use 45acp.

Doc Lambert said:

I have been using the same single-stage press for about 15 years.... But I often produce 200 - 600 handgun rounds at a time and need to speed things up. I cannot determine which would be better, a progressive loader, or a turret. Your thoughts?

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After 15 years you are well versed in what it takes to load rounds on a single stage.

All a turret press will give you is a way to do preform each operation sequentially, one after another, involving the same number of strokes of the machine per round loaded.



With a progressive, once the shell plate is full, you get 1 loaded round per stroke, achieving all operations simultaneously with each stroke.



Easy to see what method is a more efficient use of time and energy, preforming the same number of identical operations in sequence, cost is the factor one must consider after they concede the obvious.

I like my Hornady LnL AP

I don’t think I’ll ever get a progressive press. I’m not in a rush. All my preferred powders are infamous for inconsistent metering, and need to be watched. Also, I feel that priming is best done as it’s own step, so tension and bottoming out can be cleanly felt.
A progressive (for me) would necessitate I compromise in one fashion or another.
My peace of mind is clear, loading this way.

and it gives my idle hands something to do in the small hours of the morning when I can’t sleep.

Like the OP, I started with a single stage. I moved to the Lee Turret and liked it fine. I found a deal on a used Dillon 550 last year. I hardly ever used the turret again, and sold it to a new reloader last week.
David

Ironicaintit said:

I don’t think I’ll ever get a progressive press.

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I reloaded on a single stage for about 30 years before I got a progressive. The main reason I got a progressive press was to have mindless tasks like crimping happen while I was performing other reloading tasks.

Ironicaintit said:

I feel that priming is best done as it’s own step, so tension and bottoming out can be cleanly felt.

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I prefer to clean cases after sizing. I size cases then expand the mouth on then progressive and then tumble clean the cases. I do this shortly after shooting the ammunition and then store the clean cases away for a future loading session. I then prime off the press before loading the cases.

By separating sizing from loading, there is less to watch and make sure things are going well. The resizing process goes very quickly when one not worried about the loading process at the same time.

When not worried about the resizing process, the reloading process has less to watch and verify things are going well.

From listening to what folks claim their production rates are, mine are not much less and I still reload more ammunition than I can shoot.

A progressive press affords the reloader a range of operating processes that improves production rates but keeps the operation within the comfort level of the reloader.

I went from the single stage directly to a LNL AP progressive and didn’t consider a turret. If I had to do it over, I’d do it this way again. Get whatever color progressive you like and start reloading! Good luck!

Ironicaintit said:

Also, I feel that priming is best done as it’s own step, so tension and bottoming out can be cleanly felt.

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With all progressives except the Lee Loadmaster and Dillon 1050’s/1100, priming is done in its own step opposite of where everything else happens and can be clearly felt.

The presses that seat while everything else is also happening, have the depth of the primer pre set, just like one sets their dies.

I'm only around 18 months into reloading, but I'll say I dove into it head first. I read and read about the topic but in the end, found no definitive answer for me personally. IN the past year, I've loaded more common components but I've learned a thing or two.

I started with a Dillon 550 for 9mm, 44 mag/spcl, 38 spcl. The machine is fine for all of those but my favorites on it are 44 mag (NOT using a Dillon powder drop), and 38 spcl. For 9mm I'll probably get a 750 one day with the works for real automated loading. For now, the 550 is ok for that round, but not the best. I'd have no interest i loading 38 or 44 on a 750.

I started loading match 223 and for that I bought a single stage...and I think it is perfect for that task, no complaints. I know people load 223 in bulk, but I shoot steel cased and when it's cheap, there's just no reason to ever load it. I'm just about to begin loading 460 S&W and again, I'll definitely use the single stage for that as well.

Dillon dies are superb, but they are 100% "set and forget" as in you set them up for one specific load/projectile and leave it that way. Adjusting them for specific rounds is a serious pain in the rear, they have no fine adjustment options. What they do offer is super easy cleaning...again, for those mass runs of ammo.

cfullgraf said:

In my opinion, the only advantage of a turret over a single stage press is you do not have to replace the dies when moving to the next reloading step.

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This perspective is dated - the boom of bushing dies over the last ~decade has really eliminated this as an advantage.

But the advantage of a turret press over a single stage press remains - a huge percentage of your cycle time is spent in case transfers in and out of the press, and less transfers happen with a turret than a single stage. Yes, it’s the same number of strokes (often more, in fact) as a single stage, but a user does not waste time placing and removing cases from the press. When you put both presses on a clock, the turret press completes the task much faster than a single stage. The machine uptime is greater for a turret press than a single stage - the Turret press is “working” for a greater percentage of time, and spending less time waiting for the operator to complete manual inload and unload tasks during each cycle. Such, less total time is spent to do the same work with the machine.

For example, I use a turret press to size and expand necks. When auto indexing, I have to pull the arm 4 times to cycle the turret head, even though I am only actually performing two operations. But operationally, my right hand cranks the two sizing operation strokes while my left hand grabs the next case, a brief pause while my left hand swaps the sized case out and the fresh case in, then my right hand idles the press through two more strokes to bring the sizer back around as I dump that case into the finished bin with my left hand, and reach for the next. Putting my single stage Forster Co-Ax or Lee Anniversary single stage presses on the clock against the LCT, for this operation, I finish my two step sizing somewhere between half and two thirds the time with the LCT as it takes with the single stage presses. Total machine uptime is greater (% of time working/time available).