Self defense rifle concepts

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Purpose built is a good idea. I did the same thing, and use my AR pistol for one purpose... defensive use.

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Same for my SBR... my scoped 700, my scout rifle, my shotgun... although I do have some (I guess all, if you're pressed into it) that are multi-use.
 
Purpose built is a good idea. I did the same thing, and use my AR pistol for one purpose... defensive use.

Same for my SBR... my scoped 700, my scout rifle, my shotgun... although I do have some (I guess all, if you're pressed into it) that are multi-use.

That's always kind of the crux of it, the "purpose built" VS the "multi-use".

Personally I always lean towards the "purpose built" for practically everything; HD/SD, hunting, competition etc. Kind of a right tool for the job outlook VS pounding nails with a wrench.
 
Defensive rifle = AR. At least for me.

I have a few to pick from. OK, I have 3. A pistol, an SBR, and a 18". These are the obvious choice for me. I spend 28 years in the Army so there is a serious second nature factor here in the muscle memory. I went to war with these guns 3 times, so it's just what I think of for defense right off the bat. There're what I'm best with, and fastest with. It's like I'm Quirt Evans in "Angel, and the Bad Man" reaching for my revolver... I reach for my AR.

The pistol, and SBR both have red dot sights, and the 18" a LPVO that can be used almost as a red dot. This is very important to me in a defensive weapon. I prefer the straight up red dot over the LPVO, as any scope can have scope shadow that will slow you down when you are panicked, and scared, and don't get your face in the right place because you screw up, or are in an awkward firing position. NOTHING beats a red dot for personal defense.

I also have a couple of others... odd choices that others may not think of as defensive rifles. A lever gun, and a bolt gun. In today's political times, it makes sense to have something to travel with, in case I need to go to where I can't bring an AR... Some of the less free states have really restrictive laws.

If you think about it, the lever gun, and the bolt gun were the choice defensive weapon of their time.

I started with a Rossi 92 in .44 magnum. It had a 24" octagon barrel, that I had cut to 17". A big loop lever was added, and a rear peep sight that replaces the bolt safety. A section of picatinny rail is on the top flat of the barrel where the rear sight was, allowing me to mount a red dot sight, and a light. Still holds 10+1, and the .44 mag out of a 17" barrel is pretty potent. It's also very fun to run the combat cowboy carbine. Very fun.

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In similar fashion, I did up a Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 by having the barrel shortened to 16.5". The front sight was moved back, and the front of the barrel threaded for a Surefire Warcomp. A custom mount is press fit on the barrel and held in place on the dimpled barrel by set screws for the red dot sight, then I re-worked the wood to keep the original flavor except the buttstock I replaced with a pistol grip style. Now it's practically a bolt action SOCOM 16... The fast Lee Enfield action works very well, and the 10 round magazine is a good thing for defensive use.

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Both of these use the red dot I love so much, and they are very fast on target. I actually enjoy shooting these more than my ARs. Not saying I'd take these over an AR to go to war with, but they would do... I have a lot of practicing to do with the Lee Enfield yet though as its a recent build.
I wish I could like those rifles more than once
 
I have reached an age at which having to move at a fast walk, or run, very far, holding something as heavy as an M14/FAL/Garand, is going to be quite noticeably more difficult than with a pencil-barreled/lightweight AR15. A sling helps, but is not a total remedy. (It is not a matter of “going to the gym,” unless orthopedists and spinal specialists have started practicing medicine at gyms.) Weight is best borne on my lumbar and hips areas, leaving my weakest-link upper back out of the equation. So, in the heavily built-up and/or heavily-vegetated areas in which I am usually located, where the anticipated range is usually short, the .223/5.56, cartridge, and the lightweight AR15, makes plenty of sense.

The above paragraph is more about the exfil-on-foot situation, such as seeing that the road ahead is blocked by social-unrest situation, so I would need to abandon the truck, or, of course, a disabled vehicle in a “bad area.” Also, perhaps, a particular element has “doxed” me, and decided I should “pay for” an event that occurred in the line of duty. Rather than wear a pink polo, and stand out front, I may have to slip over or through a side or back fence, and exfil.

I was never in the military, but did attend a major PD’s 40-hour AR15-oriented patrol rifle certification course, and carried a patrol rifle for several years, until that front sight grew too much “hair,” and I sold my Colt AR15A2 Govt Carbine to a colleague with younger eyes. (Optics were later OK’ed, but by then, there were enough young bucks, with rifles, so it made sense for me to keep being a shotgunner, for breaching, as well as to be able to select-load the hardened slugs that performed better against auto/truck body metal, than the 55-grain JSPs mandated for use in the rifles. Working straight nights, I did not feel handicapped by being armed with just a shotgun, and handguns.)

The .223 55-grain JSP has been well-established as not being an over-penetrator, in building materials, compared to most duty handgun rounds. This point has been talked to death, in this forum, so that is all I will say, about that. Well-chosen .223/5.56 ammo is not an over-penetration liability. Human bodies will contain the bullets, as will building materials. Just beware of what total misses, in the open, would do, of course.

A skinny-barrel AR15, especially if equipped with one of the several nicely-hand-filling, ergonomic grips available today, CAN be readily manipulated one-handed, so the “handguns are better if one needs a free hand” argument is not an argument against this type of lightweight carbine. Moreover, unless one is wearing a holster, a handgun could be the greater liability if one momentarily needs BOTH hands to be free. I can tuck an AR15 under my arm, and have both hands, and one arm, free.

I am actually more comfortable with two shotgun platforms, the Remington 870 and Benelli M1/M2, than the AR15. Largely, this is because there is some latent cognitive dissonance, inside my head, with a selector lever that is ready to fire when the lever is pointed DOWNWARD. I spent some around of time, in the early Nineties, internalizing the idea that the safely lever of auto-loading pistols should be aligned with the barrel, pointed AT the target/opponent. I did not start training with the AR15 until 2002, when my employer re-started its patrol rifle program, after discontinuing patrol rifles in 1983, just before I was hired.

So, I am more comfortable with the AR15 when I can really engage my brain, and deal proactively with a threat. If just awakened, I am going to reach for an 870 shotgun, and then try to move toward a Benelli M2. Had I been able to mentally internalize the operation of the M16/M4/AR15 selector, before learning those handgun safety levers, I might be able to run an AR when half-awake, but, that is not how my life went. Folks who never had to learn such handgun safety systems should not have this mental conflict.
 
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I spent some around of time, in the early Nineties, internalizing the idea that the safely lever of auto-loading pistols should be aligned with the barrel, pointed AT the target/opponent.
I find the motion sweeping the safety off very similar to a 1911, very natural. But I've shot both platforms a lot.
 
Someone wrote that a 30-30 isn't a good choice when facing an angry mob. Actually show you mean business and drop one at the front and the fight tends to leave the rest like crap thru a goose. Also in places like NYC or California a Winchester 94, Marlin 336 or a Rossi 92 doesn't come close to meeting the ban standards there and you can keep them loaded by either stuffing fresh rounds in the loading port or dropping rounds right into an open chamber.
 
Provided you can handle it. Slinging around and getting hammered by magnum 12 gauge isnt in my 90 year old father's wheelhouse anymore.
How do you suppose he would do with a 14 lb 7.62 x 51 battle rifle then?. He'd be well served by a .410 though, or so it might be. But I don't think this discussion is the point of this thread.
 
How do you suppose he would do with a 14 lb 7.62 x 51 battle rifle then?. He'd be well served by a .410 though, or so it might be. But I don't think this discussion is the point of this thread.
When you're in a hole it's best to stop digging, first off my 7.62 AR is 5 pounds shy of your 14lb mark but no it's out of the running.
I built him a 8" 300 blackout that he handles real well and 130 Barnes TSXs at near 2000fps work real good on a 200lb Hog, should work well on a 2 legged creeper. I've never been real impressed with a 410 for SD.
 
When you're in a hole it's best to stop digging, first off my 7.62 AR is 5 pounds shy of your 14lb mark but no it's out of the running.
I built him a 8" 300 blackout that he handles real well and 130 Barnes TSXs at near 2000fps work real good on a 200lb Hog, should work well on a 2 legged creeper. I've never been real impressed with a 410 for SD.

Correct. A short little 14" .308 AR (pin & welded Warcomp) isn't gonna be anywhere close to no 14 pounds... Nice, and handy.

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Has a 30-30 or .35 Rem or such ever been made in the style of a Browning BLR with a detachable box magazine? With a extended 10 or 15 round box magazine that would be some firepower or imagine that in a intermediate cartridge like 300 blackout

or even a pump like that check it out but costs as much as regular AR
Troy pump rifle
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/877112544
 
Has a 30-30 or .35 Rem or such ever been made in the style of a Browning BLR with a detachable box magazine? With a extended 10 or 15 round box magazine that would be some firepower or imagine that in a intermediate cartridge like 300 blackout

or even a pump like that
Remington made a 7615 in 5.56 IIRC it took AR mags.
I've often thought it wouldn't be too hard to convert an AR platform into a pump.
 
I think I have had relied on just about everything at one point or another for the role. From a single shot .22lr to a beltfed 308 or a 50 BMG.

Some might have done better or not but I have put as much or more effort in avoiding such situations than what firepower I would impart, so don’t really have any results at least as far as human incidence.
 
I find the motion sweeping the safety off very similar to a 1911, very natural. But I've shot both platforms a lot.

Well, it is not simply the downward-sweeping motion at play, in my case. When shooting a 1911, my thumb is on the safety lever, which is aligned with the barrel, when ready to fire. When shooting a 3rd-Generation S&W autopistol, my thumb bumps the safety into the fire position, which is aligned with the barrel. The S&W’s safely lever sweeps upward, but I taught myself to bump it forward, with my thumb moving “toward the enemy/opponent/target” to off-safe the weapon, so, in principle, not unlike off-Safe-ing a 1911, and in both cases, the distal end of the lever is pointed where I want the bullet to go. Well, almost 20 years after I have learned the 1911, and about a decade after I learned the S&W auto safety manipulation, I found myself being trained to use the AR15 selector lever, which sweeps downward to off-safe, but, points downward for semi-auto fire.

So, the problem was not the 1911-like downward sweep, but feeling the selector aligned with the barrel, On-Safe, which, with either type of pistol, means “fire.” More than once, this startled me, as for that brief moment, I thought I had “caught myself” being off-safe, with the AR, when I was on-safe.

I also experienced the weird feeling of the selector being pointed toward the ground, off-safe, when I wanted to shoot the AR15, and being bothered with the old auto-pistol mantra, “Don’t get caught with your Dingus down,” with the “dingus” being the S&W/Beretta/Walther pistol safety/decock lever, which is on-safe when the lever is pointed at the ground. Whether or not one actually carries such pistols on-safe, or simply uses that lever to de-cock, and carries it off-safe, one has to take into account that the lever can be bumped to the on-safe position, so making sure the pistol’s Dingus is not down, when ready to shoot, is a step in the manual-of-arms. Even though I had stopped using my S&W 3913 several years prior to adding my AR15, thousands of repetitions of working the 3913’s safety lever had developed a not-so-easily erased conditioned reflex. (The 3913 was a HOT pistol, to have, once upon a time.)

When one is on a perimeter, for an extended time, much of the night, fighting fatigue, trying to remain alert, waiting for a barricaded suspect to do something, rifle pointed at a doorway, and with carelessly un-safe fellow officers occasionally passing in front of my position, little things like conflicts in the manual-of-arms of safety levers can be vexing.
 
but I have put as much or more effort in avoiding such situations.

As we all hopefully do. As I said in a previous post staying away from trouble is the best thing, and for self defense a handgun or shotgun beats a rifle usually with legal self defense distances, but for the sake of "defense rifle" discussion it is a interesting thread.
 
Well, it is not simply the downward-sweeping motion at play, in my case. When shooting a 1911, my thumb is on the safety lever, which is aligned with the barrel, when ready to fire. When shooting a 3rd-Generation S&W autopistol, my thumb bumps the safety into the fire position, which is aligned with the barrel. The S&W’s safely lever sweeps upward, but I taught myself to bump it forward, with my thumb moving “toward the enemy/opponent/target” to off-safe the weapon, so, in principle, not unlike off-Safe-ing a 1911, and in both cases, the distal end of the lever is pointed where I want the bullet to go. Well, almost 20 years after I have learned the 1911, and about a decade after I learned the S&W auto safety manipulation, I found myself being trained to use the AR15 selector lever, which sweeps downward to off-safe, but, points downward for semi-auto fire.

So, the problem was not the 1911-like downward sweep, but feeling the selector aligned with the barrel, On-Safe, which, with either type of pistol, means “fire.” More than once, this startled me, as for that brief moment, I thought I had “caught myself” being off-safe, with the AR, when I was on-safe.

I also experienced the weird feeling of the selector being pointed toward the ground, off-safe, when I wanted to shoot the AR15, and being bothered with the old auto-pistol mantra, “Don’t get caught with your Dingus down,” with the “dingus” being the S&W/Beretta/Walther pistol safety/decock lever, which is on-safe when the lever is pointed at the ground. Whether or not one actually carries such pistols on-safe, or simply uses that lever to de-cock, and carries it off-safe, one has to take into account that the lever can be bumped to the on-safe position, so making sure the pistol’s Dingus is not down, when ready to shoot, is a step in the manual-of-arms. Even though I had stopped using my S&W 3913 several years prior to adding my AR15, thousands of repetitions of working the 3913’s safety lever had developed a not-so-easily erased conditioned reflex. (The 3913 was a HOT pistol, to have, once upon a time.)

When one is on a perimeter, for an extended time, much of the night, fighting fatigue, trying to remain alert, waiting for a barricaded suspect to do something, rifle pointed at a doorway, and with carelessly un-safe fellow officers occasionally passing in front of my position, little things like conflicts in the manual-of-arms of safety levers can be vexing.
Well that explains it the Slide mounted (sweeps upward) is the odd one for me. All my DA/SA autos have either been frame mounted safeties like CZ75 or decocker like Sig for that reason.
 
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