.22 LR "Pocket Pistol" -- Beretta 21A Bobcat vs. Ruger LCR II?

Solomonson said:

I want to thank everyone for the input. I was hesitant to ask anywhere else because I didn't want to hear stories about how I should choose a 38/9mm/380/32 instead. I shoot 22LR rimfire at least 2/month. If I buy an LCP II or 21A I'll get plenty of trigger time to really get familiar with the firearm. I won't if it was a 38/9mm/380/32 instead.

The gun's application would be strictly as a "belly gun." To give an attacker a very bad time up close and personal, so that I could extend an escape. Thanks again for all the inputs.

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Though this is another topic that has been dragged through the mud at infinitum, a few well placed shots to the knees or groin will do get the job done that you seek. I have no problem using these round several times on an attacker.

ms6852 said:

Though this is another topic that has been dragged through the mud at infinitum, a few well placed shots to the knees or groin will do get the job done that you seek. I have no problem using these round several times on an attacker.

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"Normally" that was almost assuredly a way to stop scum. Now days its getting really scary out there. I have all my life read and heard stories of some dobad soaking up multiple hits from a service weapon and not stopping. I used to always think most of these were watering hole stories that just kept getting better with the more times they were told. Last few years with good camera's everywhere now it's getting scary. So many of the people I refer to as "drug zombies" who we get to see video of them soaking up rounds and not stopping. I still at times carry a mouse gun only but, all this has got me to carry a "better gun" a lot more than I used to. Some times it seems like the walking dead is becoming a real thing any more.
Still the first rule of wining a gun fight, have a gun, of course applies. Have a gun, ANY gun. If someone is much better with a .22 great. At least they have something and if they can hit what they shoot at with it because it's so easy to use that much better.

deleted, wrong thread

chicharrones said:

The pre-heavy slide .32 ACP Tomcat is the known frame cracker, not the smaller Bobcat. But the Bobcat gets all finicky with extraction/ejection after the chamber gets dirty. Having no extractor can do that to a gun.

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The issue isn’t the build of the pistol, it’s muzzle energies exceeding 130 ft/lbs.

https://berettausa.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1048/kw/Beretta 3032

Basically, people use hot .32acp loads meant for European SMGs and wonder why their pocket pistol’s frame is cracking.

I'm not all that familiar with the Beretta 21A,,,
But I'm assuming it operates like my tip-up barrel Taurus.

On that rare occasion that you have a dud round,,,
You can't just rack the slide to eject it.

The Taurus doesn't have a clawed extractor,,,
So you must flip the barrel open to eject the dud.

The gun is so small that racking the slide to chamber a new round is very difficult,,,
It's easier and almost as fast to drop the mag, strip a round, reinsert the mag, Then load and close the barrel.

Does the Beretta 21A operate the same way as the Taurus?

Does the Ruger have a clawed extractor?

To alleviate this problem as much as possible I only use CCI 40 gr Mini-Mags,,,
That's the only ammo with which I have never experienced a dud round.

I have had an opportunity to fire the LCP II,,,
The slide racks easily enough for me.

I didn't think to look for an extractor.

Anyways, this is one factor I would take into consideration when choosing one or the other.

Aarond

.

Alex Clayton said:

"Normally" that was almost assuredly a way to stop scum. Now days its getting really scary out there. I have all my life read and heard stories of some dobad soaking up multiple hits from a service weapon and not stopping. I used to always think most of these were watering hole stories that just kept getting better with the more times they were told. Last few years with good camera's everywhere now it's getting scary. So many of the people I refer to as "drug zombies" who we get to see video of them soaking up rounds and not stopping. I still at times carry a mouse gun only but, all this has got me to carry a "better gun" a lot more than I used to. Some times it seems like the walking dead is becoming a real thing any more.
Still the first rule of wining a gun fight, have a gun, of course applies. Have a gun, ANY gun. If someone is much better with a .22 great. At least they have something and if they can hit what they shoot at with it because it's so easy to use that much better.

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Scenarios will always be different and will dictate a different outcome, and unfortunately there is no crystal ball that will show us that. If the scenario you described happens, no handgun in your possession that you can shoot accurately regardless of caliber will deter an individual. In Vietnam you could literally empty a 30 round magazine to a VC and they still kept coming. They were dead, they just did not know it as they were so pumped up with drugs.

I think you will be satisfied with your choice.

BOARHUNTER

. . .

Prince Yamato said:

The issue isn’t the build of the pistol, it’s muzzle energies exceeding 130 ft/lbs.

https://berettausa.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1048/kw/Beretta 3032

Basically, people use hot .32acp loads meant for European SMGs and wonder why their pocket pistol’s frame is cracking.

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IMO, something wasn't right to begin with, otherwise I don't believe Beretta would have made heavier slides for the Tomcat to correct the issue.

https://rdougwicker.com/2017/05/10/pocket-pistol-week-beretta-tomcat/

It's not the first time Beretta has increased slide weight on a .32 ACP blowback pistol. They did the same thing when upgrading the model 81 into the 81BB.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/handguns/Beretta-Model-81-and-81BB-differences-photos/4-190649/

aarondhgraham said:

I'm not all that familiar with the Beretta 21A,,,
But I'm assuming it operates like my tip-up barrel Taurus.

On that rare occasion that you have a dud round,,,
You can't just rack the slide to eject it.

The Taurus doesn't have a clawed extractor,,,
So you must flip the barrel open to eject the dud.

The gun is so small that racking the slide to chamber a new round is very difficult,,,
It's easier and almost as fast to drop the mag, strip a round, reinsert the mag, Then load and close the barrel.

Does the Beretta 21A operate the same way as the Taurus?

Does the Ruger have a clawed extractor?

To alleviate this problem as much as possible I only use CCI 40 gr Mini-Mags,,,
That's the only ammo with which I have never experienced a dud round.

I have had an opportunity to fire the LCP II,,,
The slide racks easily enough for me.

I didn't think to look for an extractor.

Anyways, this is one factor I would take into consideration when choosing one or the other.

Aarond

.

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The Taurus is much harder to rack than the Beretta because of the Taurus’ DAO hammer. These two guns do not work the same way.

Cokeman said:

The Taurus is much harder to rack than the Beretta because of the Taurus’ DAO hammer. These two guns do not work the same way.

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Thank you for that info,,,
I always wondered if they only "seemed" like the same gun.

Aarond

.

Look up Beretta Model 71. When gun makers didn't have lawyers or import points.

Sounds like the OP has made his choice, but I can comment that my S&W Plastic M&P .22 Compact is the most reliable .22 I have. 100% with MiniMags from round one and after "break in" it is shooting everything else I have on hand.

Solomonson said:

Thanks again for all the input. I am going to go with the Ruger LCP II in .22LR based on all the inputs here.

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Solomonson- just catching up to your thread. Enjoyed the commentary. How is the LCPII working out?

I have the 21A and a Taurus PT22. The Taurus has been flawless through hundreds of rounds of two types of ammunition: MiniMags and Federal AutoMatch (the only two I've tried in it.) The Beretta has only been tried to date with the MiniMags and cannot get through a single magazine without two or three malfunctions. Both guns were bought used.

This stymies my opinion of the Bobcat so, in this query, I'd be inclined to give the Ruger a try.

Solomonson said:

While I don't own one, I think a number of Taurus offerings get a bad rap from people who really don't know what they are talking about. I think they actually make some excellent firearms...

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Taurus "suffers" from what some others who make a LOT of guns do. Untold thousands of them just work and most of those people are never heard from again. As with all mass manufacturing they let out some "problems". Sucks to be the one who gets a problem and many of those people will of course be vocal. One thing I hear more than I would like is how hard some have said it was to get them to fix the problems. Back in the early days of looking for a pistol I could pocket carry I almost bought one of Larry Seecamps. They were years long wait or you had to pay what the going rate was which tended to be close to double. Few times when I had a great day at a show and a pocket full of cash I almost bought one. Only reason I did not was the horror stories of how he treated people if something was wrong. Even the gun rags who normally would say nothing negative mentioned it.
Now days though of all the guns mentioned which I have had, the latest from Ruger, LCP II is by far the most impressive to me. It's so damn thin, light, and easy to shoot and carry. It's not something that would be for plinking fun but if someone wants a super easy to carry .22 for just in case its been super impressive. The .380 version of it is a always with me pistol now since it too is so easy to carry. NOT fun to shoot but also impressive in how easy they are to carry.

Solomonson said:

While I don't own one, I think a number of Taurus offerings get a bad rap from people who really don't know what they are talking about. I think they actually make some excellent firearms...

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Gotta take a chance with your own money and find out. I've done it only twice. Happy-ish with the first one, not happy with second one, and I'm not willing to take a third swing when there are so many other gun makes and models out there.

MedWheeler said:

The Beretta has only been tried to date with the MiniMags and cannot get through a single magazine without two or three malfunctions.

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You must have gotten my old Berreta 21A. That thing never ran reliably. I would never recommend it. I
traded it in as part of a transaction for a larger caliber revolver. Likely the Ruger 22 the better choice.

An LCP II 22 lr, is on my want list. Had a Beretta 21a that I replaced by a LCP 380 more than a decade ago. The LCP II definitely seems like a good old man gun for the future.

I have had a Bobcat for 15 years, and while its reliable, and unusually accurate, I highly recommend against them as a defense gun, for 1 reason: They don't have an extractor. Duds happen, especially in rimfire. When a dud takes 30 seconds of focused effort to clear, its not a great thing. FYI Minimags have never had duds in any pistol I have had, and I feel confident with them in the Bobcat. But my concern is feral dogs.

Also, the Bobcat has very stiff duel recoil springs, and has to fight the very strong hammer spring. These have a lot of stovepipes because of this. The recoil springs are on a cam, and run perpendicular to slide travel, so they actually put up a huge amount of resistance. I cut two coils off each recoil spring, and left the hammer spring alone. Now it runs 99.9% with Federal blue box, and 100% with minimags. About 95% with anything else in the high velocity range. It was about 60-90% before that. I shoot mine fairly often, and it probably has a few thousand rounds through it. I do really like it, and it doesn't feel like cheap plastic.