Loading Range Brass on Progressive?

Clean all brass before startimg, whether wet, dry, or bucket with soap and water first; anythimg im the case will go out the bbl. Not necessary to clean the primer, say many; I do mine. Unequal lengths will be inconsistent belling, from this forum, many don't trim pistol brass just jam the bullet in anyway and it works for plinking and informal target. 1 or 2 per 100 is acceptable loss.

I wet tumble and rinse heavily so debris in the case should not happen. My range uses some Styrofoam like sound deadening and there are always pieces stuck in brass. During powder drop check I of occasionally see one out spec, not enough to trip the Dillon powder check but visible. I'm sure for the few I've found there has been some melted down the bore.

As far as mixed brass I rarely ever need to adjust my dies for mixed brass. With that said I sort by headstamp and load in batches of like brass. The effort to size or seat primers is much different from say S&B brass to RP Brass. Primer pockets are much tighter in CBC than many others. Also that different wall thickness will give different powder fill.

Primer pocket residue has never been an issue for me in all my 9mm reloading. Guessing about 30lb of assorted powder at an average of 4gr per round.

Last week loaded 4k rounds in about 6 different headstamp. Also attached is a mag from my cz shadow 2 at 25 yards.

Way better than plinking ammo

gifbohane said:

4) I found that no matter how meticulous that I am in resizing, 1 or 2, out of a hundred, finished rounds will not plonk.

BTW I am talking about plinking not world class accuracy. Are these variables significant or just to be accepted?

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Let's stop you right there.

gifbohane said:

range brass ... probably from being fired from an unsupported chamber

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Proper reloading practice is to test and verify your suspicions to conduct "root cause analysis" so as to identify the cause and work to eliminate it.

Even when you are loading plinking rounds, you must resize all of your brass so they will pass the case gage/tightest barrel you have by dropping freely, falling in with a "plonk" and falling out freely when turned upside down.

• So I suggest you test your resizing process to ensure you are full length resizing your range brass. While resizing brass, if you see daylight between bottom of die and top of shell holder, you are not full length resizing the brass and need to adjust your resizing die further down so the bottom of die just "kisses" the top of shell holder.

• Then take your full length resized brass and test them in the case gage/barrel with tightest chamber.

If some of the resized range brass fail the case gage/barrel, then your resizing process could be the cause of some of your finished rounds not passing the "plunk" test using the barrel. Another cause could be overly expanded brass (Like 9mm Major loads shot by some USPSA match shooters) that atypically expands the case base where carbide sizer ring of resizing die can't reach.

When I encounter greater resizing effort than usual, I suspect overly expanded brass and I first check to see if I am full length resizing the brass by checking for daylight between the bottom of die and top of shell holder/plate. And if I am, I will chamber check the resized brass in the barrel with tightest chamber and if it won't pass, I will resize a second time but if it fails the chamber check the second time, I will toss the brass for recycling as I deem the brass overly expanded (Think thinned case wall).

If all of the resized range brass pass the case gage/barrel, then it's your reloading practice perhaps with "tolerance stacking" of brass with thicker case wall (Or inconsistent case wall thickness around the case neck) that could be the cause along with larger sized bullets and/or tilting of bullet during seating which result in elongated/oblong case neck (If elongation/oblong case neck happens below the taper crimp die, they will remain elonaged/oblong).

Some reloaders will choose to use Lee Factory Crimp Die with carbide sizer ring to "fix" the out of round/out of spec case neck or not full-length resized brass but since this is "High Road", I recommend adjusting the dies so dimensions of finished rounds are round and within spec. (Keep in mind, many plinkers and match shooters successfully loaded rounds that are round and within spec for decades without the use of FCD)

gifbohane said:

1) The inside of the cartridge will have some debris remaining in it.

2) After the sizing/depriming step the primer pocket will still have residue

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For loading plinking rounds, residual soot left inside the case won't matter that much.

As to residue left in the primer pocket, it's often light crusty residue that gets compressed flat when primers are seated and usually do not affect primer ignition. Often, these residue will fall out with the spent primer during resizing/depriming operation instead of accumulating.

However, if residue is preventing primer from being seated below flush or even to flush causing high primers, then I may consider cleaning out the primer pocket by separately resizing the brass and depriming the spent primer (Or use universal depriming die).

gifbohane said:

3) Each head stamp cartridge will have different wall thickness and length. This will create different belling (expanding) widths. Or other variables?

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Resized case length will not only vary by headstamp but by how many times the case has been reloaded as it tends to get shorter as brass is work hardened.

And yes, thicker case wall brass at same resized length will apply more taper crimp (More specifically, indent deeper into the bullet base) but so will longer resized case. So when I am adjusting the die to set the taper crimp, I will measure some resized case lengths and use an average length.

However, if thicker case wall brass is bulging the case neck to the point where it is rubbing the chamber (particularly when using larger .356" sized bullets), your options are to cull the thicker case wall brass or use smaller .355" sized bullets. Of course, using FCD would address the bulged case neck but post sizing will reduce bullet diameter yet the brass spring back will reduce neck tension and possibly increase bullet setback.

My Dillon 750 and resizing set up/process for 9mm is as LiveLife describes using a Dillon resizing die. My seating and crimp dies are Lee.

I have a separate tool head with a Lee sizing and depriming die. If I collect brass from outdoor ranges I clean/wet tumble the brass first then resize/deprime. I don’t bother washing first for indoor range brass, I just sift it really well in the sorting tray.

Next, I wet tumble with stainless steel pins. I like shiny clean brass. It’s my preference. The brass is not more accurate, doesn’t shoot any better. But it looks good. I enjoy the cleaning steps of the hobby.

I’ve reloaded over 10, 000 rounds on a Lee Turret press and 4,000 on my Dillon. I’ve never sorted by head stamp or worried about a consistent length. 9mm is good to go on a progressive.

Bosn Ski said:

Dillon 750 ... I have a separate tool head with a Lee sizing and depriming die

It’s my preference. The brass is not more accurate, doesn’t shoot any better. But it looks good.

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Actually, there's more to personal preference or appearance when it comes to resizing 9mm brass.

I noticed my Lee carbide sizer rings reduced case mouth/neck to smaller OD and further down towards case base than other dies, sort of like mild undersized "U" die.

And for 9mm, Lee carbide sizer is tapered (9mm is a tapered case) and with radiused die opening, will produce smooth resized cases whereas some other brand dies with sharp opening can scrape, especially for slightly/overly expanded brass - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/9-mm-loads.865271/page-2#post-11431360

So instead of this



Lee 9mm resizing die with tapered carbide sizer ring will produce this



And I like seeing even bulge around case neck where bullet bases are seated to as they indicate good neck tension (Winchester 115 gr FMJ sized .355")




And close up of loaded round with RMR 9mm 124 gr FMJ sized .3555" with .378" taper crimp loaded to 1.130". note the even case neck bulge around the bullet base to indicate good neck tension and that bullet was not tilted during seating. Also note the sharp 90 degree edge of case mouth to headspace with the chamber

I load 9mm on a Dillon 650.

I clean range brass in a vibratory tumbler using fine corn cob with a 50/50 mix of Nu-Finish and real mineral spirits.

I separate the brass and tumbling media in a rotary basket separator.

I dump that brass in the case collator and start loading.

I run all the loaded rounds through an EGW seven hold case gauge. Any that don't fit get thrown in a "practice" bin, or put in the pull down bucket, depending on how poorly they fit in the gauge.

I know that if they fit the gauge they will work in all of my 9mm firearms.

I usually run between 500-1000 at a time. If I'm running the press the number of rejects is around 1%. I use Dillon dies that are correctly set up. Many people forget to load the shell plate when setting the resizing/decapping die. ALL die adjustments on a Dillon should be done with a full shell plate.

Not checking the brass leaves you open to getting ones with the stupid ledge. (forget which headstamps have it)
I had on separate at the ledge on a mid range load leaving half the case stuck in the chamber.

Other than getting rid of those you need to watch for brass coated steel (magnet or if you are wet tumbling with citric acid they come out a funny color) and the ones with crimped primers, non boxer primed ones, and of course steel and AL
ones.


Once I get through that I load lots of mixed range brass with no issues (yet) other than some will fail the case gauge.
There always seems to be some that will fail % just depends, sometimes not many sometimes more.

Dudedog said:

Not checking the brass leaves you open to getting ones with the stupid ledge. (forget which headstamps have it)
I had on separate at the ledge on a mid range load leaving half the case stuck in the chamber.

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Those are a pain. I know that the brass that I have found with the ledge has a MaxxTech head stamp. Because of those, I pay very close attention to my powder check die and I also visually inspect the cases for powder level. After reloading, I look through my rounds again for any rounds whose ledged brass may have slipped by. Finally, I look at the headstamps as I stuff magazines.

Why not look at the head stamps before you clean them?
Waiting for a problem to show up at the press or the range doesn't seem right.

PO2Hammer said:

Why not look at the head stamps before you clean them?
Waiting for a problem to show up at the press or the range doesn't seem right.

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The brass with a ledge is found on the press. Same for crimped brass. It takes a couple of seconds to take it off the press.

I have run buckets and buckets of range pickup 40S&W and 45 ACP through my Dillon XL650 and I might get one or two non plonkers using my chamber checkers every ~400 rds (a typical evening's relaxed reloading), They almost always go plonk in my actual barrels and thus go into the practice box.

Make sure your sizing dies is going all the way down. With my Dillon carbide die I actually filed the end of the dies down flush to the carbide insert to ensure I can get the sizing die as far down as possible on the case. I put car wax in my tumbler and this reduced dust and leaves a coating on the brass that reduces friction make sizing easier and more consistent without added a step to lub. Keep the brass shiny longer after loading too.

Cannibul said:

I load 9mm on a Dillon 650.

I clean range brass in a vibratory tumbler using fine corn cob with a 50/50 mix of Nu-Finish and real mineral spirits.

I separate the brass and tumbling media in a rotary basket separator.

I dump that brass in the case collator and start loading.

I run all the loaded rounds through an EGW seven hold case gauge. Any that don't fit get thrown in a "practice" bin, or put in the pull down bucket, depending on how poorly they fit in the gauge.

I know that if they fit the gauge they will work in all of my 9mm firearms.

I usually run between 500-1000 at a time. If I'm running the press the number of rejects is around 1%. I use Dillon dies that are correctly set up. Many people forget to load the shell plate when setting the resizing/decapping die. ALL die adjustments on a Dillon should be done with a full shell plate.

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Same method I use with my 650 and range pick-up brass, except I use wet tumbling for cleaning with steel pins.

I do not think that you are saying that my sizing/resizing die should be able to correctly size EVERY cartridge, since I do not believe that to be true

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Correct, the die can only go down so far on the case. (that's why they make roll sizers but they are $$$)
So unless you have a roll sizer or a push thru die there may be some that even though you sized them just won't gauge.

A simple solution to the bulged case problem. The sizing die has to be screwed down to it makes gentle contact onto the shell plate. Use your standard seating / taper crimp to only seat the bullet and remove the belled case mouth. Buy the Lee Carbide Taper Crimp Die and use it in the fourth station after seating the bullet. Adjust the LCTC die to also touch the shell plate. You don't want any "cam over" action on your sizing or crimp die.

The Lee Carbide Taper Crimp die eliminates bulged cases in 9 MM, 40 S&W,10 MM, and 45 ACP. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011209519 this is the die you want from your favorite supplier. I used a MidwayUSA because it only takes 4 mouse clicks to get to this die. It does work!

I only have a single stage press, so I can't comment on actual use, but other owners of progressive reloaders here on THR and other sites say they do their case prep on a single stage press, then reload on a progressive.

Be sure that when you actially have a case in the sizer die, there is no space between the snhell holder and die with the ram raised; if there is, (it"s caused by press flex) lower the ram and screw the die down incrementally, past where the shell holder touches the empty die, until there is no space when it is raised with a case.

Single stage allows, I think, better QC because of handling...but slower thru put.

You are making much to do about nothing. I load on a 650, I don't sort headstamps. The only brand of brass I won't use anymore is Agulia 124 gr because it has a deep cannelure. I use Redding dies. Unless you are roll sizing your brass, you ARE GONNA have some failures. Doesn't matter the brand of dies or brand of press of what type of press, a sizing die simply cant resize the entire case, hence a roll sizer.

If you head over to the Brian Enos forum, it's THE DILLON FORUM. You have competition shooters on that site shooting 10K -60K rounds a year, they aint sorting brass, they aint doing prep work on a single stage and they sure as heck are not changing die setting for different brands of brass.

Don't plunk every round in a barrel. Buy a SAMMI-minimum chamber check gauge and check your finished rounds in it.

The chamber check gauge makes it much easier to diagnose why a particular case flunks this test. Some of these are simple to fix; for example a burr on a rim can be filed off quickly.

Perhaps because I use a chamber check gauge, or because I use quality sizing dies that are set up properly, my experience is different than the OP's.

In general, I get very few 9mm rounds from any batch made on my 650 (walnut tumbled, never-headstamp-sorted range brass, Dillon dies, set up per the Dillon manual) that don't pass the chamber check gauge. Maybe one out of 200.

Of the one in 200, maybe one in 10 have gross defects like a buckled mouth, stripped plating or an inverted primer. These I trash. The remaining nine generally chamber in my guns and shoot fine. I shoot them on practice days when I don't pick up the fired cases.

These numbers are based on my recollection. I've got a batch of 8,000 ready to load. I'll keep better records on this batch and post the real numbers.

In 45 ACP, having a finished round flunk the chamber gauge is extremely rare.

I have loaded and shot hundreds of thousands of 9mm from mixed range pick up.

I start by sorting the pickup by caliber.



Then I tumble it clean, run a magnet over it to get steel cases and pick out aluminum ones that are left.

At that point it gets a trip through my roll sizer to get rid of any nicks in the rim or bases that won’t be sized going into a regular die but ensure all will plunk later. Any case that were “really” bulged didn’t fall into the 9mm bin at step #1.



The roll sizer gets not only the portion of the case that is in the shell holder/where radius of die mouth but even gets inside the extractor grove.



These days I give them all a size pass that also swages the pockets but before I had automated equipment I didn’t do this extra step, would just load.




That gives me no surprises when I do make the load pass.




The way I keep the powder check die set, it also catches any stepped brass that makes it that far.

luzyfuerza said:

Perhaps because I use a chamber check gauge, or because I use quality sizing dies that are set up properly, my experience is different than the OP's.

Of the one in 200, maybe one in 10 have gross defects like a buckled mouth, stripped plating or an inverted primer.

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A little snarky this morning aren't we? I mean, because my stuff's better'n your stuff, you still have fallout from your process.....