Enfield Jungle Carbine

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Mars5l

Mars5l

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My LGS has one, one of the employees himself is trying to sell it. Im a little leary as I don't know how to make sure its a real one. I've done a little searching and Googling on it. Now I did see on the receiver it was marked "jungle carbine" which my understanding is they were never called that just nick named so I imagine it might not be an authentic WW2 model. The wood was excellent, I think it had a metal buttguard, the metal finish looked almost new. Im assuming they are a black industrial finish from what I saw. He said it might have been an arsenal refinish. He wants $600 for it. It's chambered in .303, not 7.62x51.

Walk away or take a closer look?
 
95% probability it's a fake. Pull the hand guard off -there should be lightening cuts done there, but not newer than the barrel finish in general.

Thisexplains it pretty well:



Overall length 39-1/2 inches; 20-1/2 inch barrel with flash hider. Rubber buttplate; short fore-end.

An honest No. 5 rifle (or “Jungle Carbine”) has lightening flutes cut in the barrel knox form and extensive milling done to the receiver to lighten it. (Take the handguard off and look for the barrel flutes.) Also, an honest No. 5 will be electro-engraved “No5MKI” on the left side of the receiver and will not have “No. 4” stamped or engraved anywhere on it. In addition, an honest No. 5 will bear the proper manufacturer’s code: “(ROF)F” for Fazakerley or “M47C” for BSA-Shirley. Finally, the barrel band will be only 8 inches in front of the receiver ring--rather than 10-3/4 inches as on a No. 4 rifle.

In the 1950s and 1960s, Golden State Arms Co. of Pasadena, California modified quite a few No. 4 rifles by shortening the barrels, adding flash hiders, and shortening the fore-ends. Some were equipped with Fajen or Bishop sporter stocks, as well. These were called various names, such as “No. 4 Jungle Carbine,” or “Santa Fe Mountain Carbine,” or “Mountain Rifle,” but all have “Golden State Arms” and “Santa Fe” roll-stamped on the barrel. Nice aftermarket conversions, but strictly that.

Currently, Navy Arms is doing the same thing with No. 4 rifles and selling them as “No. 5 Jungle Carbines.” At arm’s length they look genuine, but they have standard No. 4 rifle markings and DO NOT have the lightening flutes on the barrel or the lightening cuts on the receiver. These are strictly fakes--or thinly disguised “replicas.”
Click to expand...

Quoted from this:


https://webpages.uidaho.edu/stratton/en-page/fakes.htm
 
I agree with entropy. $600.00 is a little on the steep side for an imitation. On the other hand, I bought one of those afore mentioned Golden State Arms "Santa Fe" carbines (decades ago - Ronald Regan was president) and it's turned out to be a really good shooter.
 
You're right about the 'jungle carbine' name -- the McCoy should just be marked No.5. Golden State and Navy Arms both 'jungled' various Lee Enfields, so there is a lot of variation. I've seen both SMLEs and No.4s get the treatment, including a fair number of 7.62x51 Ishapores.

Wikipedia has a couple hints on spotting a non-military conversion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungle_Carbine#Post-war_non-military_conversions

If the remodeling was well-done, the bore is nice and the exterior is unpitted, try offering $3-400 -- some of the fakes are nice shooters but have zero collectibility, and that should give you some bargaining leverage.
 
I'd agree that somewhere close to $400 would be fair for a shooter. They're a heck of a lot of fun; IME they don't kick anywhere near as bad as their reputation.
 
If sitting on a gun table/bench and one has skinny shoulders like mine, try to sit upright with an Enfield “no. 5” when shooting.

if standing where nobody is watching —or you really don’t care-- hold your shooting arm with a slight upwards “Chicken Wing”. This keeps more shoulder flesh behind the buttstock.

Along with the lightning cuts (if they let you check for these) make sure that the receiver, if legible, says “no. 5”. I owned two of them.

The smallish hard pad on the buttstock might still be attached?
 
Well as fate would have it I went up there today so they could get a copy of an old reciept for a gun I bought that was on consignment. On the wall was a Winchester Garand with the CMP paperwork. I probably overpaid for it, but put it in lay away. Told the clerk im going to hold off on his Enfield. I'll just have to start my British rifle collection another day or next year
 
Dave DeLaurant said:
You can still find some newly-minted No.5
Click to expand...

They still make everything cool over there. It's a gun collectors/shooters paradise.. You know in a sane world.. Travel Agents would be organizing travel junkets for gun enthusiasts over there. Image the yearly THR shopping flight. I would be welcomed at the doors.. "Ahh Mr Indy welcome welcome.. come over here we have something special for you" It would be a blast.. But in the real world one would end up welded up in a 55 gal drum.

Love the video.. But I prefer the "quality" :) gun shops You know, the ones that have roof top gun range testing.. Skip to 7:00 if you must.

 
I remember seeing a barrel full of those in a hardware store for $ 29.99.
I’m gettin’ old.
 
I have this memory that Ishapore was putting out a MK III (?) converted to "jungle" configuration. I want to remember these were in both .308 and .303 chamberings.

A "true" No 5 will only be in .303, most, IIRC, will be largely from Australian factories, with a mix of Brit factories. The war ended before they would sort out production.

Then, they discovered that the stock .303 barrel did not "like" to be semi-free floated, and would string shots vertically. (The .303s were "fettled" to have support at the front band, which damped out barrel vibrations, which is how they were the preferred rifle at Bisley for 600, 800, & 1000 yard shooting.)
 
CapnMac said:
I have this memory that Ishapore was putting out a MK III (?) converted to "jungle" configuration. I want to remember these were in both .308 and .303 chamberings.

A "true" No 5 will only be in .303, most, IIRC, will be largely from Australian factories, with a mix of Brit factories. The war ended before they would sort out production.

Then, they discovered that the stock .303 barrel did not "like" to be semi-free floated, and would string shots vertically. (The .303s were "fettled" to have support at the front band, which damped out barrel vibrations, which is how they were the preferred rifle at Bisley for 600, 800, & 1000 yard shooting.)
Click to expand...

No5 mk1 was made at Fazakerly.
 
Fazakerly or BSA-Sherly.
My Dad and his younger brother ordered Jungle carbines mail order about 1960- Dad sold his right away-couldn't stand it. My uncle sporterized his, it kicked like a mule! (I shot it. Once.)
 
It's a fake. It might make a good shooter. Check to see if the bolt is matched to the receiver. If not, I would pass.
 
Mars5l said:
Well as fate would have it I went up there today so they could get a copy of an old reciept for a gun I bought that was on consignment. On the wall was a Winchester Garand with the CMP paperwork. I probably overpaid for it, but put it in lay away. Told the clerk im going to hold off on his Enfield. I'll just have to start my British rifle collection another day or next year
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good gun shop. Congratulations on the Garand!
 
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